WEBVTT
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To listen ad-free, visit sinspod.co slash subscribe. Starting at $ 2. 99
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a month, you'll also get access to our exclusive bonus
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content episodes when you join through Patreon or Apple subscriptions.
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Thanks for supporting the show.
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Hi, and welcome to Sins and Survivors, a Las Vegas
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true crime podcast. where we focus on cases that deal
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with domestic violence, as well as missing persons and unsolved cases.
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I'm your host, Sean.
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And I'm your co-host, John.
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This week, we're wrapping up our third season of the podcast.
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We branched out a lot this year. We produced nearly
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50 episodes. And this is the season where we let
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ourselves explore a bit.
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Yeah, it was crazy. 50 episodes?
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I believe that's what you said.
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Oh, that's right. I said 47. 47. That's amazing. Although
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not all of them were new. We did some flashbacks,
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which I think is great because there were changes to the,
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you know, there were things happened in those episodes. We
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did our off the cuff episodes, kind of like we're
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doing this one where we just have a list of
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things we want to talk about and we talk about it.
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Yeah, we got, and that allowed us to cover things
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slightly outside of true crime. Like Burning Man was one
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of the big stories that we covered.
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Burning Man is true crime. Yeah.
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It is truly a crime.
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But we did the Daniel Mendoza, that incredibly long multi-part episode,
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eight episodes. Yeah. Which you should definitely go listen to
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if you haven't. I think it starts with sinspod.co slash 129.
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And yeah, that was one that you really did on
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your own.
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Yeah.
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I basically went on vacation for eight weeks and let
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you work on that yourself.
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And I actually maxed out our... subscription level for going
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through the, it wasn't newspapers.com. It was the RJ, the
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RJ's archives and the Las Vegas sun. They only allow
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you to download or, um, yeah, clip a certain number
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of articles in the, in a month based on our
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subscription level. And yeah, I mix, I max that out
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and had to wait a month before I could do more.
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Wow.
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Uh, but I find, I, I think our listeners know, I,
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I find that story so interesting and so relevant even today. Um,
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30 years later.
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Yeah.
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And I did look it up and Ron Mortensen's hearing
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actually is, today, today as we're recording this, it's August 25th, 2026.
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And his hearing is, was scheduled for this morning about
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whether or not they're going to let him.
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I'm sure we'll see it on the news tonight.
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His plea. I can, I can look up and see
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if it was, if it actually happened today.
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And to be clear, he's free now. He is not
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in jail. He's a free man, but he is trying
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to get his guilty. plea overturned.
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Even though he pleaded guilty to second degree murder.
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And I think that's because he wants to then be
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able to go after the state for wrongful prosecution and
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get his payday.
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I think you might be right, but I don't know.
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I haven't spoken to him yet.
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I did. I mean, I did want to go down
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to the court and see if maybe I could be
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there for the hearing, but had something else to take
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care of this morning. And even though it said 930,
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sometimes you go to the court and it's not always prompt.
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So I felt like it was risky.
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Would they have let you in for that? I honestly
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don't know.
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I don't think it was closed.
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Huh.
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I honestly don't know. And if the judge had asked me,
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I would have just told her honestly why I was
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there and let Ron go listen to our episodes, which
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I'm surprised if he hasn't found them. Ron, if you're listening.
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Yeah. We want to know what happened. We want to
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know what happened. I'm sure we'll find out.
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Yeah.
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But we covered a lot of missing people.
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Yeah, that was a huge goal because the Metro put
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out that.
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Cold case missing. We didn't do all of them.
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No, there's too many to do.
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There's too many. And those were hard because sometimes we
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complain about this all the time, among so many things
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I complain about, that there's not much information. It's just
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like a white 24-year-old disappeared on this date. There's no photo.
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Some of them, yeah.
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And, like, sometimes there's very little in the way of description,
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which always shocks me.
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Yeah, no exact address of where they were last seen
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or where they might have been going.
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No details. And some of these were, like, 1972. Yeah. Like,
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this white person was seen driving a car in 1972. Mm-hmm.
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If you have any information, you can stay anonymous, call
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Crime Stoppers. uh, kind of stories like, yeah, but we
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tried to bring attention and that website exists and you
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could always go and look and see that how many
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cold case missing there are here.
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We did get quite, we did find quite a few
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that had stories. And actually we talked to one of
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the mothers, um, uh, Rocco's mother. And we talked to
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her for like an hour and a half about her
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son and, um, her experience with him being missing. Um, And, like,
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his life and everything, which was a wild experience.
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Yeah. But, I mean, we always say this, too, but
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we're here for the families. So we want to cover
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the stories.
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It was nice to feel like we... It seemed to
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me like she wanted to feel heard and have someone,
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you know, get the story out about her son. And
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I think we did that, which I think was really cool.
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Definitely.
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And then, of course, my highlight episodes... were covering the
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scammer Idris Kiyaba, who that episode still I think is
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so crazy. This person who would, you know, steal people's
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social media presences and then sell them back, blackmail them. Yeah.
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That dude was a crazy criminal. Happy to see he
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went to jail. Definitely, if you haven't listened to it,
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go check it out. I'm not sure which episode it is,
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but it's got to be in the very beginning. Sean
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will look it up. While I'm talking here. And then my,
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I think my biggest highlight of one that I worked on.
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That was episode 98.
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98. And this is 140. So it was a while ago.
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Yeah.
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It was toward the beginning. My, I think my biggest
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highlight was doing the research for Sonny Liston.
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Yeah.
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I found that super fascinating.
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And we got some really good feedback on that episode.
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And I'm glad. So I'm glad we covered that one.
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Yeah. People who aren't really into true crime at all either.
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Just like. Yeah. people we've met here and there said
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they really liked that episode. So that was cool.
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And I think it was good for us to cover
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some stories that weren't murders per se, and that were
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not domestic violence related, but just interesting stories where there's
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still people still seeking answers.
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Yeah.
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It's possible that Kiaba has some other victims out there too.
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Yeah. Yeah. That one wasn't, domestic violence so we did
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we really did branch out this year and go into
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other types of crimes to keep it fresh and of
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course Sonny Liston didn't really like there was no the
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only domestic violence there was that his Sonny Liston's.
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Father was a.
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Known domestic abuser in you know like the 1920s and
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30s but that's you know that's a tenuous yeah I mean,
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if you're looking for that.
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But I might classify that one as one of a
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sort of unsolved.
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I think so, too. It's one that will never be solved.
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There's so many different people who are still alive who
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are completely sure what happened and none of them agree.
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Yeah.
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So, yeah, that one is that one like still eats
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at me. Um, we also did interviews, which were interesting fact.
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We are doing an interview tomorrow. Oh yes. Yes.
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We are being interviewed.
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We are being interviewed. Do you want to tell the
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people about that? Tell the people about that.
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Uh, a reporter from the newspaper out of, uh, Arizona,
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the Arizona Republic reached out to us to talk about
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Lake Mead. I guess we are kind of seen as
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the podcast experts on Lake Mead. Uh, so yeah, um,
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that's happening tomorrow. And obviously, if we have the opportunity
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to share that in some way, we will be sharing it.
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So that's happening tomorrow morning.
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Tomorrow morning, yeah.
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And we also interviewed the AdvocacyCon people just last week.
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We put that out.
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Whitney and Eric. We're going to be there in a
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couple weeks.
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Yeah, we'll be there in a couple weeks. So if
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you're going, we'll see you there. And then, of course,
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we interviewed Liz Ortenberger from SafeNest.
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Right.
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Two-parter.
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Two-part episode about the state of domestic violence in Las
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Vegas and around the country and what changes we can
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make to policy to improve it.
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She's so smart.
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I know.
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She's always great to talk to. She really knows this
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stuff so well. And she's so good at talking about it.
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Yeah.
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I mean, I guess she's the CEO of SafeNest. Yes.
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You would expect that.
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Local expert, yeah. Yeah.
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She's definitely a local expert.
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We also had, we also, I kind of want to
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call it fun. I think it was fun. We did
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some collaborating with other podcasts. We did that several times
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this past season.
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Oh, those were fun. We did the holiday collaborations.
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Yeah. So you had the episode with Nina instead and
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Robin Warner from..
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The Trail Went Cold.
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The Trail Went Cold and Nina from Already Gone.
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Who uh is no longer doing i know.
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Already gone as has ended nina's doing much more on
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the ground advocacy work that's what i understand with um
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missing in michigan.
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That seems to be the way these things go yes
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we have some thoughts on that as to why that is.
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Yes um and then i got to got to do
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collaboration with uh Kristen CV and Javier Leyva. Kristen from Murder,
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She Told and Javier from Pretend. And we actually enjoyed
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working together so much that we did that second collab
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that was specifically like Christmas Crimes, which was really fun
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to do. We called it The Grinch.
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You had a lot of fun doing that.
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I really did. They're both so great to talk to
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and work with.
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I feel like you did that as a part of
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the program where we, you know, collabed or whatever. And
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then you were like, oh, let's do this again.
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Yeah.
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So then you did the Grinchy Crimes episode right around Christmas. Yep.
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That was really fun.
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And of course we did our Missing at the Holidays. Yes.
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As always.
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As we have been doing.
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And we got to work with Jamie Beebe and Jake
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at Strictly Stalking, which we've done before.
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We're still rolling along.
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Yeah. Yeah.
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They've been doing their podcast for 65 years.
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Really? Wow. Yeah.
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Wow. A really long time. Wow. Yeah.
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It used to be like you'd get like a letter
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in the mail from them and then..
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Yes.
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Like a pony express.
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Right before they were born. On the frontier, you could
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get the..
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You could get the Strictly Stalking podcast delivered.
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No one knew what stalking was back then. Yeah, that's true.
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They were the first. And then, of course... you went
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to your advocacy training recently. Well, I guess, I mean,
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we did do CrimeCon as well.
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Yes.
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Yeah. We had a surprise visit at CrimeCon. They invited
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us at like the last possible moment. Yes.
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Which was cool. It was a good experience. We appreciate that.
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We mentioned this before. CrimeCon has been doing a lot
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of work to try and make it a place because
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families go there seeking answers, looking to connect with content creators.
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I mean, if you're loved one is missing. I mean,
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what could be better than getting Nancy Grace to talk
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about them or, or have it covered on Dateline just
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in hopes that, or that it reaches more people, right?
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You can eventually get answers. And I think CrimeCon recognized
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that in the past few years and has tried to
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make it a space that, that involves advocacy. So families can,
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can feel supported and not constantly triggered and re-traumatized by CrimeCon.
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Yeah. And if you're the family of someone who is
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missing or murdered, you don't, I mean, I trying to
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put myself in that position, which is obviously super difficult.
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You don't like, I wouldn't care what, like if it
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was Dateline, if it was Nancy Grace, I would not
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care as long as the story was getting out there.
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If you were missing, I would not care where the story,
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I would want the story on everyone's TV at all times.
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So, you know, What else can you do?
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Good for them for taking advantage of that opportunity.
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There are some people that we work closely with who
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continue to press CrimeCon to be more respectful to families
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and have it be more of that kind of environment.
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And we put pressure on within the podcast community. I
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think we put pressure on each other to elevate. to
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be careful what your podcast artwork looks like, what you
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name your episodes, what images you use and share, because
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there are real people behind these stories and they, they
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deserve that respect and they need to be seen as
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people with, with feelings and not just content.
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So, and I like the idea of what Eric said,
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that he wants his advocacy con to be a, conference,
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not a convention. Yes. Like it's not a Star Trek
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convention where we all cause play. Yeah. Um, and wear
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offensive t-shirts. Yep. Um, but it would be nice if
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crime con also got there. Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Because they are huge.
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They are.
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It's hard though, man. Like there's so many corporate interests
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at play there, which is one.
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Of our, which is also part of the problem, right?
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Yeah.
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Because when you're, you treat somebody as a dollar sign, um,
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You exploit them, exploit their pain.
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It's like I was saying earlier, like now podcasting has
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been seen by the corporate eyeball and they realize that
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there are a ton of ad dollars to be made
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and there's people to exploit. And, you know, it makes
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it hard. Absolutely. But also you attended your advocacy training.
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Yeah, the listeners, I believe, might remember this, that just
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last year I officially became a credentialed victim advocate.
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Nice.
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Which I think just makes it kind of official, like
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kind of gives me some level of credibility, kind of, yeah, just...
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Just makes it, yeah, I guess that's the best way
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to put it, the official. I'm not just calling myself
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a victim advocate. I've actually gone through training and have
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to undergo continuous training and to keep my credential. And
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that was the, the training was actually the big conference,
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the National Organization for Victim Advocacy. They had it here
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in Las Vegas this year, just last month in July.
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And it was like three days or four days. And
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I got to go to so many sessions. And one
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of them that I really wanted to share with, with
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our audience has to do with the idea of suspicious deaths.
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And I think if our listeners would probably recognize that,
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that I don't know that we've ever specifically covered something
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like this on the podcast, I'd have to think, I mean,
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we've done over 170 episodes. I don't, I don't, I
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don't know off the top of my head, but suspicious
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deaths where the, The person's death has been ruled a
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suicide or possibly like an accident or an overdose, but
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it's actually a homicide. And Alliance for Hope calls it
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a hidden homicide. And just, well, in 2024, California was
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the first state that enacted a law to address this issue,
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and it's called Joanna's Law. So the law requires police
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officers in certain cases to interview family members before determining
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the manner and cause of death. And then it gives
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the families the right to request a complete autopsy when
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there are specific indicators. So someone dies and they have
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a documented history of domestic violence. And if there are
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three or more of these red flag factors, then the investigators,
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they have to interview the family members and close friends
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find out the information about the domestic violence history before
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they determine the manner and cause of death. So their
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red flag factors are such as the victim prematurely or
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unexpectedly dies. The scene appears to be an accident or suicide.
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One partner recently wanted to end the relationship. There's a
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documented history of domestic violence or course of control. The
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victim is found dead in their own home. They are
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discovered by their current or former partner. There's a known
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history of strangulation or suffocation. The partner was the last
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person to see the victim alive. The partner had control
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of the crime scene before the police got there. And
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the crime scene appears to be altered or staged. So
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you only need three of those things. And then law
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enforcement is compelled not to just declare it a suicide
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or an overdose and say, that's the end of it.
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And it really gives the families access to ask questions
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and have more of an investigation done before the case
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is closed. Because I think we know that there are
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situations where once the police rule it one way, they
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haven't collected the proper evidence. And then once it's lost,
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it's just lost and there's no way to recreate that.
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I feel like it's very easy to get three of those.
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I think so.
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If, if the people, I mean, assuming the victim was
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not elderly or sick and that would be the majority
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of people, it's going to be, um, that they died
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prematurely or unexpectedly. Um, the scene appears to be an
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accident or suicide. Yes. How else do people die?
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How else could a young person?
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Accidents or suicide. Yeah. Um, The victim is found dead
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in their own home. Well, I mean, that's what we're
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talking about. So that's three right there.
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Right.
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The body is found by a former or current partner. Well,
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who else is going to find them? Yeah. I mean,
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you know.
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It makes total sense. But there are two cases that
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I'll talk about because actually one of the family members
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spoke at the training and shared her daughter's story. And
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I think this will just kind of bring it all
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together for the listeners so we all know what kind
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of cases we're talking about. So the law in California
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was named Joanna's Law, and it was named after Joanna Hunter.
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So Joanna was 36 when she was found hanging in
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her bedroom closet in her California home. This was on
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October 6, 2011. Her husband, Mark, said he found her there.
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The investigators treated the death as a suicide. No homicide
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investigators were called to the scene. Bedroom wasn't processed as
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a crime scene. Phones, fingerprints, DNA evidence, none of that
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was collected. And the autopsy the next day found the
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ligature marks were consistent with suicide. and her death remains
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officially classified that way. But Joanna had a long documented
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history of domestic violence. She'd obtained restraining orders, had previously
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reported her husband for strangling her, grabbing her by the neck,
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and he had a prior DV conviction. And her family
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also said that Joanna repeatedly tried to leave the relationship.
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Her mother, Patricia, and her younger brother, Joe Hunter, which
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many people may recognize that name because he was a
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Survivor contestant, the TV show Survivor. And the two of them,
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Joe and Patricia, have spent years arguing that the facts
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about Joanna's relationship should have caused investigators to treat her
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death as suspicious from the beginning. And when Joe went
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on Survivor, It was actually in part to honor Joanna.
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He was a finalist in season 48, and his emotional
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tribute to her became a major moment on the show,
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and he later just returned for Survivor 50. Outside of
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the show, he and his family helped advocate for the
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law that became Joanna's Law. At our training, we heard
402
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directly from Kelly Harris, whose daughter Kelsey Harris died in
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Oregon in 2021. Kelsey was 31 years old. She was
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a high school counselor, teacher, a coach, and she was
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working towards her second master's degree. On March 20th, 2021,
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she reported that her boyfriend had violently strangled her. She
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told law enforcement she thought she was going to die,
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and he was arrested and charged. Eight days later, Kelsey
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was found dead from a gunshot wound to the head.
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Her mother had talked to her on the phone, and
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she said that she was leaving. She was getting ready
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to leave. Her death was ruled a suicide after the
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death investigator reportedly spent 14 minutes at the scene. There
414
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was no autopsy, no toxicology, and according to her mother,
415
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no meaningful investigation of whether the strangulation eight days earlier
416
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might have been connected to her death. Her family later
417
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brought in independent forensic experts who raised serious questions about
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the physical evidence and whether the scene could have been staged.
419
00:22:15.619 --> 00:22:18.849
Her death is officially classified as a suicide. No one
420
00:22:18.890 --> 00:22:22.130
has been charged with killing her, but her case has
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been reopened for review. So whatever happened to Joanna or Kelsey,
422
00:22:28.769 --> 00:22:31.230
as I was saying before, you can't go back years
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later and recreate evidence once it's lost. So the safest
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approach is just to thoroughly investigate it at the beginning
425
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rather than decide it's a suicide within a couple of
426
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minutes and discovered years later that there were questions that
427
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nobody thought to ask at the time. And so Joanna's Law,
428
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it's only law in California, but there are several other
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states where they're trying to pass it, Oregon being one.
430
00:22:55.460 --> 00:22:59.420
So tell me more. Sorry. Tell me more about Joanna's Law.
431
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That's the law that says that if these factors, three
432
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of the factors are present, then the family has, then
433
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the police have to do more effectively.
434
00:23:10.680 --> 00:23:11.180
It's interesting.
435
00:23:11.200 --> 00:23:15.259
Well, what I mean really is, are there specifics around
436
00:23:15.480 --> 00:23:16.400
what they have to do?
437
00:23:17.190 --> 00:23:21.109
They have to interview families and they can't just rule it.
438
00:23:21.309 --> 00:23:23.960
A suicide or like preserve evidence.
439
00:23:24.579 --> 00:23:24.839
Yes.
440
00:23:24.940 --> 00:23:26.779
Okay. Yeah. I was curious what they, what they had
441
00:23:26.819 --> 00:23:27.200
to do.
442
00:23:28.460 --> 00:23:30.220
Exactly. They have to, that's great.
443
00:23:30.680 --> 00:23:30.940
Yeah.
444
00:23:31.099 --> 00:23:36.210
It, it at least, I mean, it at the very least,
445
00:23:36.369 --> 00:23:41.589
I think it's, it's there for families so they can, I, there's,
446
00:23:41.710 --> 00:23:44.009
there's a, one of the things that was talked about
447
00:23:44.049 --> 00:23:46.619
during the session is that, you know, if someone is
448
00:23:46.779 --> 00:23:52.400
experiencing domestic violence, it's likely that their mental health is
449
00:23:52.440 --> 00:23:55.960
being affected by that, right? So maybe they are experiencing depression.
450
00:23:56.019 --> 00:23:58.440
Maybe that does make it more likely that they would
451
00:23:58.480 --> 00:24:03.589
be using substances to cope and could potentially have an overdose.
452
00:24:04.130 --> 00:24:07.049
Or same thing, they could think of suicide as an
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option and they could choose that option. So it's kind
454
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of like, Sometimes it seems that the police officers kind
455
00:24:16.710 --> 00:24:19.750
of accept that as being like a thing that could
456
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actually happen. It's not impossible that something like that could happen.
457
00:24:25.039 --> 00:24:29.200
But there have been stories where like these two families,
458
00:24:29.880 --> 00:24:35.299
the woman is found dead and it's the boyfriend or
459
00:24:35.339 --> 00:24:37.569
the husband or the ex-partner who finds her and says, hey,
460
00:24:37.650 --> 00:24:40.089
I came home from work and I found her like this.
461
00:24:41.109 --> 00:24:44.140
And you're kind of taking... The word of someone who
462
00:24:44.160 --> 00:24:48.420
may potentially be an abuser may have strangled that person
463
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in the past. And we know that raises fatality. So
464
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it's just kind of like, hey, it may appear to
465
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be a suicide, but it also could be staged. So
466
00:24:59.269 --> 00:25:02.329
think about that. Gather all the information you can. These
467
00:25:02.349 --> 00:25:03.890
are the things you should be looking for. These are
468
00:25:03.910 --> 00:25:06.450
the red flags that should make you ask more questions.
469
00:25:07.490 --> 00:25:12.910
And do that work so the family... feels like that
470
00:25:12.950 --> 00:25:13.650
work was done.
471
00:25:15.450 --> 00:25:18.069
It's crazy to me that that is not the law everywhere.
472
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I know.
473
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It is interesting to me that we need a law
474
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that kind of.
475
00:25:21.160 --> 00:25:24.440
Um, it makes the police do their job. Yeah.
476
00:25:25.079 --> 00:25:31.750
And, uh, it's, uh, it's definitely concerning, but a lot of,
477
00:25:32.069 --> 00:25:33.490
a lot of times people say it has to do
478
00:25:33.529 --> 00:25:37.049
with training and the training that the police receive. a
479
00:25:37.089 --> 00:25:39.809
lot of times they don't get all that information about
480
00:25:39.869 --> 00:25:42.869
like what constitutes domestic violence or what the warning signs
481
00:25:42.910 --> 00:25:45.750
might be. It's just not part of it.
482
00:25:45.769 --> 00:25:47.049
Which also is crazy. I know.
483
00:25:47.710 --> 00:25:50.450
Considering, as we always say, it's like the number one
484
00:25:50.490 --> 00:25:54.960
cause of murder. You have to understand it. Yeah. If
485
00:25:54.980 --> 00:25:55.779
you're going to do your job.
486
00:25:58.880 --> 00:26:02.960
So we are, um, switching gears.
487
00:26:02.980 --> 00:26:04.799
Yeah, we're going to switch gears. But, but just to
488
00:26:04.839 --> 00:26:09.119
wrap that up, I'll say that, um, One of the
489
00:26:09.140 --> 00:26:13.240
people I spoke to at the session from Alliance for Hope,
490
00:26:13.619 --> 00:26:15.759
he shared with me that he had the night before
491
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attended an event that Liz Ortenberger at Safeness had put
492
00:26:19.640 --> 00:26:24.390
together and that similarly, as I understand it, there's going
493
00:26:24.430 --> 00:26:26.470
to be a push to get this similar law passed
494
00:26:26.549 --> 00:26:27.369
in Nevada as well.
495
00:26:27.430 --> 00:26:32.430
Oh, yay. That's great. Well, hopefully it will get signed. Yeah.
496
00:26:32.630 --> 00:26:35.190
I mean, I guess, say what you will about Joe Lombardo.
497
00:26:35.369 --> 00:26:37.089
I'm not a fan, but he'll probably sign this.
498
00:26:37.349 --> 00:26:41.710
Yeah, he's very much... Anti-domestic violence, I guess.
499
00:26:41.769 --> 00:26:43.930
Yes, the bar is low there, but that's great.
500
00:26:44.930 --> 00:26:49.059
I'm going to say we're going to pause here for
501
00:26:49.079 --> 00:26:51.880
a quick break before we come back and switch gears.
502
00:26:54.799 --> 00:26:57.220
All right, so we said earlier that we are apparently
503
00:26:57.299 --> 00:27:00.740
the Lake Mead podcast. Maybe we switch gears and just
504
00:27:00.779 --> 00:27:05.150
make this the Lake Mead podcast. We could talk about boating.
505
00:27:06.470 --> 00:27:07.390
Outdoor recreation.
506
00:27:08.250 --> 00:27:09.809
What else?
507
00:27:09.849 --> 00:27:11.809
Tubing? What else do people do? Jet skis?
508
00:27:12.009 --> 00:27:15.490
Right. You get on inflatable things and get dragged behind
509
00:27:15.529 --> 00:27:19.990
a boat. But yeah, we're going to be interviewed on
510
00:27:20.029 --> 00:27:26.200
this topic tomorrow because recently it's been, it's got to
511
00:27:26.220 --> 00:27:27.059
be national news.51200:27:27.259 --> 00:27:27.740
It's got to be.51300:27:28.180 --> 00:27:34.079
Because Lake Mead and the Colorado River supply drinking water51400:27:34.180 --> 00:27:38.900
for like six states and Hoover Dam is responsible for51500:27:38.940 --> 00:27:40.819
a lot of the power, not a lot, but a51600:27:40.880 --> 00:27:43.279
portion of the power generation in the Las Vegas Valley.51700:27:44.700 --> 00:27:52.279
And right now, its depth is currently at 1039 feet,51800:27:53.059 --> 00:27:56.940
and it will stop producing power somewhere in the thousand51900:27:57.019 --> 00:28:01.380
foot range, although we can still get drinking water out52000:28:01.420 --> 00:28:03.759
of it all the way down to something like 98052100:28:03.759 --> 00:28:08.160
feet because they put in another very deep water intake52200:28:08.329 --> 00:28:12.569
to keep providing water. That's obviously the more important thing.52300:28:12.769 --> 00:28:16.430
Power is important, but drinking water is more important. I'm52400:28:16.450 --> 00:28:18.289
not sure what percentage of our drinking water comes from52500:28:18.349 --> 00:28:18.829
Lake Mead.52600:28:19.250 --> 00:28:20.190
I'm not sure either.52700:28:21.109 --> 00:28:25.019
But this has happened before. It has dipped quite low before,52800:28:25.039 --> 00:28:28.000
but this is the lowest it's ever been. So hopefully52900:28:28.019 --> 00:28:29.960
it will bounce back. It did bounce back. It was53000:28:29.980 --> 00:28:31.720
really low in like 2020, bounced back a little bit53100:28:31.779 --> 00:28:35.329
by like 2023, and now it's low again. So, you know,53200:28:35.369 --> 00:28:38.190
hopefully that will happen. But we'll talk about that. If53300:28:38.250 --> 00:28:41.369
we can get the interview with our friend from the53400:28:41.430 --> 00:28:44.680
Arizona Republic, we will post it. We will do a53500:28:44.720 --> 00:28:48.579
surprise post on that and share that. I'm not sure53600:28:48.599 --> 00:28:50.099
if we're going to be able to because it's, you know,53700:28:50.619 --> 00:28:53.279
Arizona Republic's content or whatever. Maybe if we agree to53800:28:53.339 --> 00:28:54.519
do it like two weeks later.53900:28:54.779 --> 00:28:55.859
Yeah, maybe something like that.54000:28:55.880 --> 00:28:58.619
And if we like plug their podcast, maybe they'll let54100:28:59.799 --> 00:29:01.000
us do it.54200:29:01.640 --> 00:29:05.289
But our listeners will remember that when... The lake dipped54300:29:05.670 --> 00:29:10.450
to that previous low. All the stuff that was found54400:29:11.150 --> 00:29:12.269
once the water level dropped.54500:29:12.849 --> 00:29:16.720
It continues to be found. They just found another body this,54600:29:17.880 --> 00:29:22.180
like 10 days ago. Jawbone and teeth. They don't think54700:29:22.200 --> 00:29:26.460
that there's any indication of criminal activity. And they're still identifying.54800:29:27.279 --> 00:29:29.349
This would be another one for the Justice League.54900:29:30.430 --> 00:29:33.029
Yeah, the Vegas Justice League to figure out.55000:29:33.130 --> 00:29:38.609
Yep. And, but yeah, it continues to be one of55100:29:38.630 --> 00:29:39.829
the most dangerous national parks.55200:29:40.279 --> 00:29:44.259
Yep average of 10 people dying in the park every55300:29:44.319 --> 00:29:46.619
year i thought it was 20 is that what i55400:29:46.660 --> 00:29:48.720
said oh sorry average of 20 people dying the park55500:29:48.799 --> 00:29:53.160
every year between 2007 and 2024 yeah now we say55600:29:53.200 --> 00:29:54.819
dying in the park but.55700:29:54.759 --> 00:29:58.299
This is not murders like Yeah. There's not a Sasquatch55800:29:58.359 --> 00:29:59.779
out there taking people.55900:29:59.920 --> 00:30:00.220
No.56000:30:00.480 --> 00:30:02.259
I mean, there might be, but that's not where all56100:30:02.319 --> 00:30:04.400
of the deaths are coming from.56200:30:04.460 --> 00:30:05.190
We don't know that.56300:30:06.230 --> 00:30:07.630
But it's mostly drownings, as you would.56400:30:07.650 --> 00:30:11.339
It's mostly drownings. And then as we examined, um, and56500:30:11.400 --> 00:30:15.369
one of our prior episodes is to, um, motor, like death,56600:30:15.509 --> 00:30:19.230
motor vehicle accidents, including motorcycle, motorcycle accident death.56700:30:19.269 --> 00:30:20.670
That's so weird. I know.56800:30:20.849 --> 00:30:25.119
But because the, the road runs, I guess, into the park, technically, if.56900:30:25.099 --> 00:30:27.980
You, if you. Oh, right. Yeah. It's a very windy road.57000:30:28.380 --> 00:30:31.630
Suffer an accident and pass away on the one side57100:30:31.670 --> 00:30:33.910
of that line that you die in the national park.57200:30:33.970 --> 00:30:34.230
Yeah.57300:30:35.549 --> 00:30:37.410
Um, but yeah, it continues to be one of the57400:30:37.450 --> 00:30:41.130
most dangerous parks. And we just want to remind everyone,57500:30:41.150 --> 00:30:45.039
like you said, it's mostly drowning. There were the four,57600:30:45.420 --> 00:30:47.200
the four sets of remains that were discovered in 2022,57700:30:47.200 --> 00:30:52.960
three of them, they were identified and two had been57800:30:53.079 --> 00:30:57.539
people who had drowned. There were people who witnessed them57900:30:57.579 --> 00:31:00.440
going under the water and unfortunately they did not survive.58000:31:01.319 --> 00:31:04.440
But recovery was difficult and it was only once the58100:31:04.460 --> 00:31:06.700
water level fell that they were able to be recovered.58200:31:07.160 --> 00:31:08.900
But that was also the year of the man in58300:31:08.920 --> 00:31:14.309
the barrel. That was definitely a homicide. And we just58400:31:14.470 --> 00:31:17.549
really want everyone to remember that we always say that58500:31:17.670 --> 00:31:21.289
people think of the mob and all of that, especially58600:31:21.309 --> 00:31:24.509
when it comes to Lake Mead. But most of the time,58700:31:24.569 --> 00:31:30.099
these are just real people, missing people that just befell58800:31:31.200 --> 00:31:34.859
some level of tragic accident. It's not a homicide.58900:31:34.880 --> 00:31:36.559
Although we do think Barrel Guy was the mob.59000:31:38.500 --> 00:31:40.519
Maybe the mob, but definitely it was a homicide.59100:31:40.539 --> 00:31:45.579
A gunshot. Especially given the era, they think it was59200:31:45.619 --> 00:31:45.819
the 70s.59300:31:48.279 --> 00:31:50.000
Based on the clothes he was wearing that were like59400:31:50.019 --> 00:31:58.009
purchased from Kmart or something. But I just wanted to59500:31:58.049 --> 00:32:01.289
kind of remind everyone, I mean, the summer's coming to59600:32:01.309 --> 00:32:03.130
an end, but Labor Day weekend's still there. I mean,59700:32:03.150 --> 00:32:05.599
you have to wear your life jacket if you're tubing59800:32:05.630 --> 00:32:08.299
or you're on a jet ski. Don't drink and boat.59900:32:09.220 --> 00:32:10.420
All of that kind of stuff.60000:32:10.460 --> 00:32:13.220
There are too many stories about people who jumped in60100:32:13.259 --> 00:32:17.460
to save... A swimmer in trouble and ended up drowning themselves.60200:32:17.480 --> 00:32:18.079
Mm-hmm.60300:32:18.440 --> 00:32:20.920
We don't hear about any more of those. Or the60400:32:21.000 --> 00:32:24.140
one person who jumped in because his hat flew off.60500:32:24.680 --> 00:32:25.539
And he wasn't able to.60600:32:25.740 --> 00:32:26.339
And he drowned.60700:32:28.559 --> 00:32:29.849
Just wear your life jacket.60800:32:29.920 --> 00:32:33.130
Stay safe out there. Yeah. And if you're going to60900:32:33.150 --> 00:32:35.410
drink while you're on a boat, that's fine. Don't drive61000:32:35.430 --> 00:32:40.029
the boat and put on your life jacket. Mm-hmm. But61100:32:40.109 --> 00:32:42.089
that brings us really to the end of season three,61200:32:42.130 --> 00:32:45.869
and we are still thinking about what season four will be.61300:32:46.869 --> 00:32:52.029
So stay tuned on social media for upcoming announcements. We'll61400:32:52.049 --> 00:32:56.319
definitely be doing some similar things, probably, and we will61500:32:56.410 --> 00:32:58.799
let you know. And if you have ideas about what61600:32:59.000 --> 00:33:02.559
cases you want us to cover, please let us know.61700:33:02.640 --> 00:33:07.079
We're always happy to hear from the listeners. We appreciate61800:33:07.099 --> 00:33:09.940
you guys very much, and we appreciate you being listeners61900:33:10.319 --> 00:33:14.119
and subscribers. And yeah, thank you for that.62000:33:14.500 --> 00:33:18.839
Yeah, absolutely. And we will be off for the month62100:33:18.880 --> 00:33:21.200
of September because that's the time when we take our..62200:33:22.220 --> 00:33:23.660
We may do some flashbacks or something.62300:33:23.920 --> 00:33:29.390
Yeah, and some surprises, but we're not ending the show62400:33:29.450 --> 00:33:32.769
or anything. We're just taking our break before we come back.62500:33:33.250 --> 00:33:37.589
We traditionally have come back in October because that is62600:33:37.630 --> 00:33:40.380
Domestic Violence Awareness Month and that remains one of our62700:33:41.099 --> 00:33:44.440
key missions of the podcast because it continues to be62800:33:44.519 --> 00:33:48.039
the number one cause of homicide in Las Vegas. So62900:33:48.960 --> 00:33:53.599
we'll leave it there and we'll say, remember, until next time,63000:33:53.920 --> 00:33:56.509
what happens here happens everywhere.63100:34:17.920 --> 00:34:23.019
Thanks for listening. Visit sinspod.co slash subscribe for exclusive bonus63200:34:23.079 --> 00:34:27.250
content and to listen ad-free. Remember to like and follow63300:34:27.309 --> 00:34:31.469
us on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and Threads at Sins and Survivors.63400:34:32.369 --> 00:34:34.750
If you're enjoying the podcast, please leave us a review63500:34:34.849 --> 00:34:37.909
on your podcast platform of choice. You can contact us63600:34:38.090 --> 00:34:40.420
at questions at sinsandsurvivors.com.63700:34:41.300 --> 00:34:43.500
If you or someone you know is affected by domestic63800:34:43.559 --> 00:34:46.809
violence or needs support, please reach out to local resources63900:34:46.929 --> 00:34:49.800
or the National Domestic Violence Hotline. A list of resources64000:34:49.880 --> 00:34:54.619
is available on our website, sinsandsurvivors.com. Sins and Survivors, a64100:34:54.659 --> 00:34:57.780
Las Vegas true crime podcast, is research written and produced64200:34:57.820 --> 00:35:00.840
by your hosts, Sean and John. The information shared in64300:35:00.860 --> 00:35:03.670
this podcast is accurate at the time of recording. If64400:35:03.690 --> 00:35:06.849
you have questions, concerns, or corrections, please email us. Links64500:35:06.889 --> 00:35:09.090
to source material for this episode can be found on64600:35:09.150 --> 00:35:11.409
our website, sinsandsurvivors.com.64700:35:12.869 --> 00:35:13.730
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
