July 15, 2025

Maureen Kelly’s Spiritual Quest: Vanished in Gifford Pinchot (PNW Haunts & Homicides)

Maureen Kelly’s Spiritual Quest: Vanished in Gifford Pinchot (PNW Haunts & Homicides)
Listen to "Maureen Kelly’s Spiritual Quest: Vanished in Gifford Pinchot (PNW Haunts & Homicides)" on Spreaker.
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Season 2

Today in place of our standard Swing Shift episode, we're bringing you a missing person, also from PNW Haunts & Homicides. Our policy is never to have a missing person be anything other than free, in the spirit of raising the profile of these important cases and in the hope that people like Maureen will be found.

Here are their show notes. Please pay them a visit at https://sinspod.co/pnw

We remind you that we always have resources for those experiencing domestic violence listed on our website at https://sinspod.co/resources

https://sinspod.co/87bonus
https://sinspod.co/87bonusblog

---

In June 2013, 19-year-old Maureen Leianuhea “Anu” Kelly set off on a camping trip with friends in the vast and unspoiled wilderness Gifford Pinchot National Forest. The backdrop was both scenic and rugged. What was supposed to be a carefree adventure outdoors turned into a chilling mystery when Anu walked away from their campsite—completely nude, save for her fanny pack—and never returned.

Despite extensive search efforts, the only trace of her was a set of footprints leading toward a road. Her extremely limited supplies, tucked into the fanny pack she’d donned, would do little to stave off any number of threats she may have encountered in the woods. Over the years, theories have swirled - while she may have been seeking a spiritual awakening, her whereabouts have remained unknown since that fateful night. Did she fall victim to the harsh wilderness? Or is it possible that something far more sinister happened that night?

Join us as we retrace Anu’s final known steps, explore the many theories surrounding her mysterious disappearance, and discuss the latest developments, including the discovery of human remains in the Big Lava Bed located in the Gifford Pinchot National Forest in August of 2024.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/sins-survivors-a-las-vegas-true-crime-podcast--6173686/support.

WEBVTT

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To listen ad free visit sinspod dot co slash subscribe

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starting at two ninety nine a month. You'll also get

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Hey everyone, Welcome to this week's swingshift episode of Sins

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and Survivors. This week we brought you an episode from

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one of the podcasts we admire, a show that shares

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our values of thoughtful, respectful storytelling and shines a light

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on stories that deserve to be heard.

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On today's Swingshift, we have another episode from PNW Hanson Homicides,

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hosted by the great Caitlin and Cassie, who do an

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amazing job covering true crime with the Pacific Northwest Twist.

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They're smart, funny, compassionate, and always do their homework.

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The case you're about to hear is about a young

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woman named Maureen Kelly or ANU to those who loved her.

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She went into the Gifford Pinchot National Forest in Washington

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for what she called a spiritual journey and never came back.

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It's a case that leaves behind a lot of questions

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and even more heartbreak.

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Cassie and Caitlin walked through it with care, context, and

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some truly thoughtful insights into how we talk about missing

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person cases, especially when the Internet gets involved.

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If you like what you hear, make sure to check

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out their other episodes and give them a follow. Next

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week we'll be back with another original episode and a

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bonus episode, but for now, we hope you enjoy this one.

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Our story today is all about the fun and occasional

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folly of youth on June ninth. All of the accounts

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I've read say the group was simply enjoying themselves as

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the afternoon began to fade into evening. The group proceeded

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to enjoy their surroundings, no doubt, unaware that by morning

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they would reach a horrifying realization one of them was missing.

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Okay, yes, Caitlin, I have received the nudes that you

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sent me.

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Oh boy, are you going to be disappointed? I mean

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these are beautiful, not quite that beautiful, never that beautiful.

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No, oh my goodness. Okay man, yeah, I was waiting

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until you hit record to say that, so we can

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start now.

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Hi Cassie, Hi, Caitlin, Hi, creepy people. Hello, this is

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PNW Hansen homicides, where we chat about true crime, the paranormal,

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spooky things, witchy things, kind of whatever we're feeling. We

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really we really hone in on the paranormal and the

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true crime though. That's kind of our that's our safe space,

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which I think says a lot about our mental health.

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Right And where is our safe space? It's in the

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Pacific Northwest Lepi and w I yes, and I'm nasty

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because I'm drinking a curs light today.

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Curs light. That's like a very Midwest thing to say,

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curse ls. Like, what else do we do?

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Oh? I forgot? We do taro reading at the end

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of every episode for a little deeper insight into our topic.

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Cassie, have you ever visited the Gifford Pinchot National Forest

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in Washington? No?

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And it doesn't even sound familiar to me.

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Wow, okay, you may recall I just sent you some photos.

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So I'm going to show you some pictures so you

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can see just how beautiful it is. Can't let those

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they're huge? Whoa but they are?

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Yeah? Yeah, this is really pretty. Are these from your

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personal camera?

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Roll? Uh? These ones are not?

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Oh okay, they look like they.

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Could be they Yes, and I was very fortunate to

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stumble upon some Pacific Northwest kind of camping blogs that

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they had photos. Actually, the one with the waterfall, I

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have a nearly identical photo in my camera role a

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different place in Washington.

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Yeah, I feel like these waterfalls are I mean, I

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don't know, maybe they're typical waterfalls everywhere, but I feel

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like these are like super p andw waterfalls. I think

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so as well, just like the multiple points of I

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don't know what you call I don't know how to

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describe this, but like the multiple points of foliage in

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because there's so many layers of rocks and things and

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green moss, and then the water looks like greeny blue,

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like a lagoon. It's very pretty. It's very pretty. And

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then is this like Mount Saint Helens with the top

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blown off?

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Might be?

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Was that the one that blew up? It?

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Sure is?

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Then that's I think that's the only one that doesn't

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have like a point. I think, I don't know, I.

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Could be sure, and it actually I believe that geographically

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checks out. So yeah, well cool, yeah, yeah, as you'll

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find out later, I was prepared for questions, but only

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in relation to historical weather data.

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Ah, yes, I'm waiting for this.

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Yeah. I read a comment and I went, hmmm, that

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seems to directly contradict something else I read about the weather.

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I should probably hyper focus on that for thirty minutes.

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I mean I probably would too. Yeah, it turns out

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it wasn't unimportant to the stories. So okay, do you

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have any idea how difficult it can be, depending on location,

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to find historical weather data dating back to twenty thirteen?

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No, I feel like Google should just know, right.

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Yeah, Google doesn't fucking know.

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Google AI, come on, answer you answer all my other questions.

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Yeah. Google AI was like, well, here's what I would do,

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and I was like, I would have already done that.

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I thought you would give me the answer. I'm getting

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a little hung up on that. That's fine. We have

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a lot of ground to cover. So okay, when I

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look at the falls you see in a lot of

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pictures of this area, especially now that we're getting closer

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to spring, I think about that hilariously heartwarming prank that

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you and Chris pulled on me almost two years ago. Now,

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oh yeah, yeah, remember that. Okay TLDR For anyone who

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doesn't know that backstory, I was told by Cassie and

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my now husband Chris, that we were going to take

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some photos of the two of us for the pod

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and also for one of Cassie's episodes, She's a Lion Skank.

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I was not wrong, because we actually did an episode

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about the place, so we actually needed me to go there.

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Yeah, what actually happened was that Chris proposed whilst I

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was clearly confused and also scolding him forgetting brand new

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pants dirty. I'm gonna stame. Yeah, in many respects, one

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of the happiest and also maybe in some respects, not

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my proudest moment. I also made some of the most

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bizarrely dazed faces I think humanly possible. Yes, can confirm

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if you want to listen to that episode where Cassie

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tried to convince me how creepy Silver Falls was, you

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can go back and listen to the episode. We'll tag

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that in the show notes hopefully, hopefully we do that.

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It did drop on a April first of whatever.

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That year was. Yes, Yeah, it was indeed our April

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Fools episode. Kind of a tough act to follow.

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I feel like, right, yeah, we'll see what happens this year.

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Maybe we'll get icy on you maybe we'll keep you

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guessing who.

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Knows, or maybe we'll just agree that April Fools is

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a stupid holiday and it's not for adults. I do

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have more pictures for you, so hopefully. The first one

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in this progression of photos that I've sent you is

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mostly my wrist, Yes, I noticed. Okay, okay, So the

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first one looks like it was taken by a boomer.

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It's sort of the photo equivalent of a butt dial.

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But I can assure you that it was taken actually

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by me, not a boomer, famously in the befuddled excitement

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moments after your hilarious brank A. And then the other

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ones are slightly more presentable, cute photos of us at

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the falls.

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With our mouths open. Oh for Chris, Chris is just

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being normal, smiling, normal.

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Just being a just being a person, just being a person, peopling.

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Yeah, that was a fun day.

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It was whenever I see waterfalls, you know what I'm

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thinking of?

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TLC also that.

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Naturally, But let's get back on track. I were, say,

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nineteen years old. What do you think a place like

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Gifford Pinchot National Forest represents to you anything?

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I don't know, like a nice place to hiekech.

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Yeah, I feel like that's a solid guess that's what

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I was looking for. Obviously, you've got the gorgeous waterfalls,

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and I already had my monologue about that. Yeah, maybe

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a little freedom enjoying the natural world, camping with friends,

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toasting marshmallows, and maybe some drinks by the.

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Fire, alleged drinks. That all tracks though, right, Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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yeah totally. I was like thinking back to what I

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was doing at that age outdoors that it was like

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hiking a little, but mostly like camping and drinking and.

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Yeah yeah, yeah, pretty normal stuff. I think at that age.

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Our story today is all about the fun and occasional

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folly of youth. As happy as I am now with

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everything that I felt with both of my partners in crime,

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both in business and in my personal life, me, every

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once in a while, I think everyone wishes that they

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could turn back the clock and experience things the same

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way they did when they were younger. I mean, for me,

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number one, my metabolism and I could really go for

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taking another summer off. Yeah, seriously, would not hurt my

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feelings at all. Maureen anu Kelly was born September twenty

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sixth nineteen ninety three to a single mother who raised

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her in Washington State. Sources actually kind of seemed to

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differ on where exactly she grew up. Some say the

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Vancouver area, others Spokane, but ultimately our story happens in

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a completely different location. Anyway, though she was a graduate

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of Lewis and Clark High School, notably located in Spokane,

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not Spokane, No Spokane. Fun fact, Anu was a Libra

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and I share that because from what I have seen

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and read, it seems like kind of a fun detail

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that she might have actually shared about herself. Oh, she

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had sort of like a fun kind of creative I

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don't know. I mean, I feel like hippie sort of

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becomes like a catch all term for sort of a vibe.

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Yeah, but I feel like Libras also have like an energy,

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and we all have like Libra energy too, because I'm

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a Libra moon and you're like rising or something and yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Chris is Libra is a Libra.

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Yeah, yeah, I know, vibe we got, we got a

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lot of Libra energy up in here. Yeah, makes sense,

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I think. But back in twenty thirteen, Anu had a

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YouTube channel where she posted videos playing her yuke oh

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ukulele for the uninitiated and beatboxing. That's so cool generally

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just being a care free young adult. She had three

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hundred and two subscribers there. Uh, I'm going to speculate

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that some of those subscribers are more recent. Oh, I'd

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also I'd love to use this as an opening to

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transition into an arguably shameless plug. Believe me. But as

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I listened to her saying as she played her you

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I read the comments. I'm not going to read from

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the comments section until I provide a little bit more context,

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but suffice to say I was starting to come down

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with a case of the ick.

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Oh no, I don't like that.

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I know, Well, go on the internet, and you know

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as one does.

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That's why I try to stay off the internet.

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Yeah, okay, so do me a favor if you can

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only do one thing, just one time. Don't worry about

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any of the usual calls to action that on this

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podcast and other fellow podcasters, you know, the things that

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were always saying, smash that subscribe button and shit like that. Instead,

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go to her YouTube channel because this is a face

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that not enough people have seen. This is clearly an

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incredibly kind and creative young woman with a beautiful voice

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to boot. She was just like anyone would be at nineteen, beautiful, intrepid,

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a young woman with so much promise. According to her

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half sister, Sherri Kopu, she had called just prior to

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an upcoming camping trip. She called me before she left,

223
00:15:21.200 --> 00:15:24.440
saying she was going camping with friends and asked if

224
00:15:24.480 --> 00:15:28.120
she could borrow some of my camping gear. She was

225
00:15:28.159 --> 00:15:31.919
excited about going and told me she loved me. That

226
00:15:32.120 --> 00:15:36.039
was totally normal for her. She was a very affectionate person.

227
00:15:38.320 --> 00:15:41.519
When Anu arrived the following day to pick up her

228
00:15:42.360 --> 00:15:46.600
gear that she intended to borrow, Sherry asked where she

229
00:15:46.879 --> 00:15:51.519
and her group of friends were headed, and though Maureen

230
00:15:51.799 --> 00:15:57.720
was a self professed nature lover, she was not an

231
00:15:57.759 --> 00:16:05.200
experienced camper, so their destination the Gifford Pinchot National Forest

232
00:16:05.440 --> 00:16:10.080
was a bit surprising to Sherry. She described Anu as

233
00:16:10.120 --> 00:16:14.600
a very laid back, care free girl, and though she

234
00:16:14.639 --> 00:16:17.840
had reportedly longed to spend more time in the outdoors,

235
00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:22.480
her expectations were unlikely to match the harsh realities of

236
00:16:22.720 --> 00:16:29.360
the wilderness. Sherry said, I asked her why now, and

237
00:16:29.919 --> 00:16:32.679
Marine told me that she wanted to go on a

238
00:16:32.759 --> 00:16:35.759
spiritual quest that really concerned me.

239
00:16:36.480 --> 00:16:39.200
Yeah, that makes me think of like mushrooms or something.

240
00:16:39.960 --> 00:16:41.799
That's what people do. They go into the woods and

241
00:16:41.799 --> 00:16:46.279
they do shrooms and they go on their spiritual quest.

242
00:16:46.840 --> 00:16:49.759
I mean, I mean not just shrooms, other drugs too.

243
00:16:49.879 --> 00:16:53.480
But like, yeah, you're not the only one that is

244
00:16:53.519 --> 00:16:56.919
going to draw some conclusions about what that might mean.

245
00:16:57.480 --> 00:16:58.279
Yeah.

246
00:16:58.360 --> 00:17:01.639
The group of friends headed towards the Gifford Pinchot National

247
00:17:01.679 --> 00:17:06.400
Forest for their campsite at the Canyon Creek Campground. They

248
00:17:06.519 --> 00:17:11.400
drove out to Chilachee near Highway five oh three. From there,

249
00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:17.000
traveling steadily northeast, reaching Forest Service Road fifty four. When

250
00:17:17.000 --> 00:17:23.599
they start saying forest Service Road, it's fairly remote, yea. Next,

251
00:17:24.079 --> 00:17:27.079
they would have traveled down a series of small back

252
00:17:27.160 --> 00:17:31.759
roads until they reached Canyon Creek. Their total drive time

253
00:17:31.759 --> 00:17:34.960
would have been roughly three hours or so, depending on traffic.

254
00:17:36.079 --> 00:17:40.119
Once they found the specific area they intended as their campsite,

255
00:17:40.200 --> 00:17:43.359
it would have required some initial prep work to make

256
00:17:43.400 --> 00:17:47.559
it comfortable for their stay, as this area, both the

257
00:17:47.640 --> 00:17:51.880
trails and the campsites were entirely unmaintained.

258
00:17:52.759 --> 00:17:55.720
Oh wow, Okay, so this is like it is for

259
00:17:55.839 --> 00:18:00.720
experienced campers. It's not like a campground with a bathroom.

260
00:18:00.759 --> 00:18:06.759
Correct, definitely no facilities. Nothing crazy though, really just clearing

261
00:18:06.759 --> 00:18:10.119
away debris like pine needles from items like the camp

262
00:18:10.160 --> 00:18:13.039
stove that they would need to use before setting up

263
00:18:13.079 --> 00:18:17.480
their tents and preparing their evening meal. On June ninth,

264
00:18:18.200 --> 00:18:20.839
all of the accounts I've read say the group was

265
00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:25.319
simply enjoying themselves as the afternoon began to fade into evening.

266
00:18:26.200 --> 00:18:30.559
The group proceeded to enjoy their surroundings, no doubt, unaware

267
00:18:31.359 --> 00:18:36.519
that by morning they would reach a horrifying realization one

268
00:18:36.559 --> 00:18:37.559
of them was missing.

269
00:18:38.559 --> 00:18:41.160
I feel like this is like a horror movie a

270
00:18:41.200 --> 00:18:41.640
little bit.

271
00:18:43.279 --> 00:18:47.960
It's giving sort of a last house on the left

272
00:18:48.319 --> 00:18:55.039
in the extreme. But when Kelly had left their campsite

273
00:18:55.079 --> 00:18:58.759
that evening, most accounts state this was around five PM.

274
00:19:00.160 --> 00:19:05.960
Thing everyone agreed on and parroted as loudly frequently as

275
00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:09.440
possible was that she'd been as naked as the day

276
00:19:09.519 --> 00:19:12.160
she'd entered this world.

277
00:19:13.039 --> 00:19:13.359
Wow.

278
00:19:13.559 --> 00:19:18.640
Okay, well, okay almost She was wearing a fanny pack

279
00:19:20.480 --> 00:19:28.079
containing a knife, matches, and a compass. Honestly, though, a

280
00:19:28.119 --> 00:19:31.200
baby wearing a fanny pack is a pretty cute image though,

281
00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:34.559
So you're welcome if that's what you thought of when

282
00:19:34.599 --> 00:19:38.400
I said that, because I immediately pictured a baby and

283
00:19:38.519 --> 00:19:39.240
a fanny pack.

284
00:19:40.119 --> 00:19:41.519
That's what. That's cute.

285
00:19:42.039 --> 00:19:45.079
Yeah, that's the best I could do.

286
00:19:45.880 --> 00:19:47.720
That would be like what you would need if you

287
00:19:47.799 --> 00:19:50.119
were going to take anything with you, I guess in

288
00:19:50.200 --> 00:19:52.440
a fanny pack in the wood Yep.

289
00:19:52.559 --> 00:19:59.720
Those would be some arguably critical items, right, I would say. Yeah,

290
00:20:00.559 --> 00:20:03.279
that night she'd been set on the idea of a

291
00:20:03.319 --> 00:20:09.039
spiritual quest, which, right, we already knew that, but better

292
00:20:09.119 --> 00:20:15.240
naked arguably. Yeah, I mean, is this maybe the best

293
00:20:15.319 --> 00:20:18.680
environment for it? Probably not debata, but I just get it.

294
00:20:19.160 --> 00:20:23.079
It's like shedding your layers and just like being as

295
00:20:23.119 --> 00:20:24.000
free as possible.

296
00:20:24.039 --> 00:20:26.880
I get it. Yeah, Yeah, I mean I feel like

297
00:20:26.920 --> 00:20:28.920
there's a lot of this that just you know, it

298
00:20:28.960 --> 00:20:33.640
makes sense, and you're nineteen, right, and your brain's still

299
00:20:33.680 --> 00:20:39.960
cooking and so many things, and now I feel ancient

300
00:20:40.279 --> 00:20:44.839
and I have to move on. Some reports of the

301
00:20:44.880 --> 00:20:47.960
events that night state that she told them that she

302
00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:51.480
would be back by midnight, and this, I think, based

303
00:20:51.519 --> 00:20:57.319
on everything I've read, is the account that I trust most. Unfortunately, However,

304
00:20:57.720 --> 00:21:01.839
when she didn't return by midnight, their campground and the

305
00:21:01.880 --> 00:21:05.720
surrounding area would have been pitch black. The terrain is

306
00:21:05.880 --> 00:21:10.759
rough and densely forested, making it difficult to navigate even

307
00:21:10.799 --> 00:21:15.200
in the daylight for some, so regardless of mounting concern,

308
00:21:15.480 --> 00:21:19.920
it simply would not be practical to do much in

309
00:21:19.960 --> 00:21:24.200
the way of searching until sunrise. That makes sense, while

310
00:21:24.359 --> 00:21:26.920
it had been a warm day and the area didn't

311
00:21:26.920 --> 00:21:31.480
see any precipitation leading up to and less than a

312
00:21:31.519 --> 00:21:36.519
quarter of an inch in the immediate hours surrounding her disappearance,

313
00:21:37.160 --> 00:21:40.839
very important information. And you're gonna trust me on this

314
00:21:40.920 --> 00:21:44.519
because I literally spent close to thirty minutes verifying historical

315
00:21:44.559 --> 00:21:48.880
weather data alone for this case. I really want everyone

316
00:21:48.960 --> 00:21:52.960
to know. I know what the weather was. Unfortunately, the

317
00:21:53.000 --> 00:21:57.880
temperature overnight plummeted. There was grave concern about the various

318
00:21:57.920 --> 00:22:02.480
ways Anu could come to hearm alone and completely exposed

319
00:22:02.880 --> 00:22:03.920
in the woods.

320
00:22:04.319 --> 00:22:06.839
And yeah, naked and cold.

321
00:22:07.480 --> 00:22:11.680
Mm hmm. And I feel like you're having the emotional

322
00:22:12.440 --> 00:22:17.680
and sort of intellectual also response that I very much

323
00:22:17.759 --> 00:22:23.279
did as well to to this. Now is when I'm

324
00:22:23.319 --> 00:22:28.920
going to start reading you some comments that unfortunately not

325
00:22:29.039 --> 00:22:33.160
everyone is going to have the same response to the

326
00:22:33.200 --> 00:22:37.319
same information that's being presented. I don't know. I guess

327
00:22:37.559 --> 00:22:40.160
people have to decide to do with that what they will.

328
00:22:40.200 --> 00:22:43.160
But I know how I felt about it, and I've

329
00:22:43.160 --> 00:22:46.920
already said I got a real ick. I got a

330
00:22:46.960 --> 00:22:52.759
real ick. Okay, so we've decided to use an alias

331
00:22:52.839 --> 00:22:59.400
for this. Commenter Kobe Teeth said, guessing she was high

332
00:22:59.480 --> 00:23:03.000
as a kite or hammered drunk to do such a thing,

333
00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:08.519
temperatures could have brought about hypothermia relatively quickly if she

334
00:23:08.599 --> 00:23:14.000
got lost, and there's every chance she did. The next

335
00:23:14.039 --> 00:23:18.079
comment goes on to say, totally agree. This seems pretty

336
00:23:18.079 --> 00:23:22.720
obvious to me. She might have even taken the drugs

337
00:23:22.920 --> 00:23:26.960
et cetera as part of the quest. It's the old cliche,

338
00:23:27.480 --> 00:23:32.119
take peyote or whatever, wander off to meet your spiritual animal,

339
00:23:33.039 --> 00:23:36.720
because real life is not the movies. Instead, she meets

340
00:23:36.720 --> 00:23:41.720
the fate you outline. Thank goodness, it was probably relatively painless.

341
00:23:42.160 --> 00:23:44.440
Oh god, she.

342
00:23:44.559 --> 00:23:48.559
Might even have succumbed while imagining herself on the verge

343
00:23:48.640 --> 00:23:56.160
of ultimate enlightenment. Okay, for what it's worth. Under Sheriff

344
00:23:56.279 --> 00:23:59.920
Dave Cox said that while it was a bit un

345
00:24:00.160 --> 00:24:03.319
usual for a nineteen year old to leave their campsite

346
00:24:03.359 --> 00:24:08.799
with extremely limited supplies and completely nude. There was no

347
00:24:08.960 --> 00:24:11.759
indication that she was on drugs at the time of

348
00:24:11.799 --> 00:24:17.440
her disappearance. Maybe they just didn't find any and they

349
00:24:17.519 --> 00:24:23.240
didn't want to push the subject. I don't know. But

350
00:24:23.279 --> 00:24:26.880
they're the cops, so that's a thing that they typically

351
00:24:27.039 --> 00:24:34.359
will do, right though, concerning given the circumstances, friends gave

352
00:24:34.799 --> 00:24:38.559
no indication that this behavior was strange for Anu or

353
00:24:38.599 --> 00:24:43.559
that drugs were involved, despite numerous comments to the contrary.

354
00:24:44.079 --> 00:24:49.240
I never really realized what a cesspool reddit really could be.

355
00:24:49.440 --> 00:24:53.480
I'm late to the party, but of course there would

356
00:24:53.519 --> 00:24:57.079
be speculation to some It just didn't seem like it

357
00:24:57.119 --> 00:25:00.440
could have occurred in any other scenario than some drug

358
00:25:00.559 --> 00:25:01.319
laden hayes.

359
00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:05.559
I mean, there are a lot of different options, sure

360
00:25:05.599 --> 00:25:08.960
are Yeah, yeah, I mean that was like my first

361
00:25:09.160 --> 00:25:11.400
thought too, But like I'm not going to go say

362
00:25:11.400 --> 00:25:14.799
that that happened, like that's what happened for sure.

363
00:25:15.160 --> 00:25:19.599
Yeah, I would say, based on the dates, I know

364
00:25:19.759 --> 00:25:22.559
for a fact that these are people that are speculating

365
00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:29.240
on an open missing person's case. Yeah that's ikey, Yeah,

366
00:25:29.400 --> 00:25:34.000
you're icky. Search crews were dispatched to the area in

367
00:25:34.039 --> 00:25:37.640
the hopes of rescuing Anu quickly before she's succumbed to

368
00:25:37.839 --> 00:25:42.440
the elements or another threat. Footprints that appeared to be

369
00:25:42.880 --> 00:25:46.759
a match to her were found, so they ran that

370
00:25:46.880 --> 00:25:50.880
lead down. They discovered that she had apparently crossed a

371
00:25:50.960 --> 00:25:53.799
creek and climbed up to a road on the other

372
00:25:53.920 --> 00:25:58.799
side of the canyon from her group's campground. I mean,

373
00:25:58.839 --> 00:26:02.319
that just seems like a lot of I mean, she

374
00:26:02.519 --> 00:26:06.079
started off when it would have still been daylight hours,

375
00:26:06.160 --> 00:26:09.920
So all of this is entirely plausible at this point,

376
00:26:10.000 --> 00:26:14.759
and she's certainly a physically capable young woman. From here,

377
00:26:14.880 --> 00:26:17.039
it gets a little bit more murkhy.

378
00:26:17.680 --> 00:26:20.759
It just like sounds like she so she did all

379
00:26:20.799 --> 00:26:22.759
that to get up to a road. It sounds like

380
00:26:22.799 --> 00:26:24.119
she was like trying to run away.

381
00:26:24.759 --> 00:26:28.160
It's interesting that you should say that she had apparently

382
00:26:28.200 --> 00:26:33.519
been headed north toward Forest Service Road fifty four K

383
00:26:33.640 --> 00:26:38.640
nine units from Pacific Crest Search dogs were brought in

384
00:26:38.839 --> 00:26:42.599
as well, but her scent was lost once they reached

385
00:26:43.599 --> 00:26:49.480
paved roads in the area. I'm concerned. Yeah, I'm going

386
00:26:49.559 --> 00:26:52.319
to read to you the next comment from the Hammer.

387
00:26:52.839 --> 00:26:56.119
Although the weather on the day she disappeared was mild.

388
00:26:56.400 --> 00:27:00.640
Temperatures that night dipped into the forties. Without any clothes,

389
00:27:01.079 --> 00:27:04.480
she would have quickly succumbed to exposure. And that is

390
00:27:04.519 --> 00:27:07.519
a direct quote from the Charlie Project.

391
00:27:08.079 --> 00:27:10.759
So forty is that cold? I guess it's pretty cold.

392
00:27:10.519 --> 00:27:15.119
But it's barely above freezing, Okay, yeah, and you're naked,

393
00:27:15.480 --> 00:27:18.880
I guess, yeah, yeah, I know. I mean I kind

394
00:27:18.880 --> 00:27:22.720
of ran through all of the scenarios and it almost

395
00:27:22.799 --> 00:27:25.799
felt like I was a little bit like bargaining, like,

396
00:27:25.920 --> 00:27:28.480
oh no, that that can't be.

397
00:27:29.440 --> 00:27:31.880
But I kind of just felt like the forties aren't

398
00:27:31.920 --> 00:27:35.279
like immediate death, like to me, like I feel like

399
00:27:35.359 --> 00:27:38.880
you could find like a hole and cover yourself with stuff,

400
00:27:38.880 --> 00:27:40.720
and like the forties like I feel like you could

401
00:27:40.799 --> 00:27:44.920
survive that, Like it's not necessarily like it's dangerous for sure, right,

402
00:27:45.319 --> 00:27:47.400
So I could see that. I was just like wanting

403
00:27:47.440 --> 00:27:51.039
to know how immedia is this danger Yeah.

404
00:27:51.119 --> 00:27:53.759
I mean I think at the point that she hasn't

405
00:27:53.799 --> 00:27:59.319
returned the following morning and they know that she has

406
00:27:59.400 --> 00:28:04.279
remained out in the forest overnight, I think that's where

407
00:28:04.440 --> 00:28:08.960
it becomes dangerous. But this comment goes on to say,

408
00:28:09.400 --> 00:28:13.400
paired with her footprints ending on a road. This implies

409
00:28:14.039 --> 00:28:17.720
she was taken or picked up, but also is it

410
00:28:17.759 --> 00:28:21.119
possible she walked along the road for a while or

411
00:28:21.279 --> 00:28:24.519
is that too weird considering she was naked.

412
00:28:24.839 --> 00:28:26.720
I mean, I don't think it's weird. I don't know.

413
00:28:27.319 --> 00:28:32.799
I'm actually bracing myself for the next series of comments here.

414
00:28:33.960 --> 00:28:37.799
There is a reply to that comment specifically, and it

415
00:28:37.880 --> 00:28:41.759
says they did have to postpone the search due to weather.

416
00:28:42.160 --> 00:28:45.559
It's all just a strange case. I want to say

417
00:28:45.680 --> 00:28:48.839
she was picked up too. There's theories that maybe she

418
00:28:49.000 --> 00:28:53.400
joined a tribe or a cult. There's just not much

419
00:28:53.440 --> 00:28:56.480
info on this case at all, so it's all just

420
00:28:56.559 --> 00:28:57.640
so mysterious.

421
00:28:58.480 --> 00:29:00.920
That feels unnecessary mm hmm.

422
00:29:01.559 --> 00:29:04.000
And and I and I feel like maybe it's a

423
00:29:04.039 --> 00:29:08.240
poor choice of words and or the sentence structure, but

424
00:29:08.319 --> 00:29:14.079
I feel like that almost feels like you are attributing uh,

425
00:29:14.400 --> 00:29:20.279
sort of the same problematic characteristics to being a part

426
00:29:20.319 --> 00:29:26.160
of a tribe as a cult. Yeah, yeah, that was

427
00:29:26.319 --> 00:29:27.359
That's interesting.

428
00:29:27.400 --> 00:29:29.960
And then also like if you had proof of that,

429
00:29:30.119 --> 00:29:32.839
like that would be important information that they would need

430
00:29:32.880 --> 00:29:37.359
to go find. Like, yep, if she's truly missing, like,

431
00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:40.680
but if you don't, that's just like such a weird

432
00:29:41.519 --> 00:29:43.400
thing to waste time.

433
00:29:43.880 --> 00:29:47.119
And I get it. This is you know, this is

434
00:29:47.359 --> 00:29:51.240
These are not tips that are being called into law enforcement.

435
00:29:51.400 --> 00:29:55.160
These are you know, these are people speculating. I will

436
00:29:55.200 --> 00:29:59.079
say again with these comments, they are during a time

437
00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:03.000
when the case may not be active in the sense

438
00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:06.279
of like they're not actively searching for her. But I

439
00:30:06.359 --> 00:30:10.039
will say that the case was active in a different sense.

440
00:30:11.000 --> 00:30:16.640
There is another reply. Anu would never have joined a cult.

441
00:30:17.279 --> 00:30:21.319
She was a beautiful free spirit. Something terrible happened to

442
00:30:21.359 --> 00:30:27.240
my dear friend. There's no other explanation. My community combed

443
00:30:27.240 --> 00:30:31.079
the woods for years after. There was never any sign

444
00:30:31.079 --> 00:30:36.400
of her anywhere past the footprints. Unfortunately, the group of

445
00:30:36.440 --> 00:30:40.480
friends she was with is who I'm suspicious of, even

446
00:30:40.519 --> 00:30:43.759
though they were my friends too, and I wouldn't want

447
00:30:43.799 --> 00:30:48.440
to think that of any of them. Damn. The search

448
00:30:48.680 --> 00:30:54.039
initially proved unsuccessful, and by the following Saturday, almost a

449
00:30:54.079 --> 00:30:58.960
full week, as the search was suspended at six pm.

450
00:30:59.279 --> 00:31:03.119
There were two reported injuries on the search and rescue team,

451
00:31:03.799 --> 00:31:06.720
an ankle injury as well as a paw injury to

452
00:31:06.839 --> 00:31:12.279
one of the K nineteen No puppy, Paul, puppy pa

453
00:31:13.279 --> 00:31:15.000
Oh gosh.

454
00:31:15.039 --> 00:31:18.240
And these are people who are like used to searching

455
00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:21.799
in these areas. So if they're getting injured, damn.

456
00:31:22.519 --> 00:31:25.240
I am so glad you said that, because my next

457
00:31:25.279 --> 00:31:30.559
sentence is this further highlighted just how treacherous the area

458
00:31:30.720 --> 00:31:36.160
currently being searched and where Anu had seemingly vanished from.

459
00:31:36.519 --> 00:31:41.680
Really were I mean those are those are not ideal circumstances.

460
00:31:42.640 --> 00:31:46.039
Yeah, she have shoes on? Or did she have shoes on?

461
00:31:46.680 --> 00:31:51.720
She did not, no shoes, just the fanny.

462
00:31:50.799 --> 00:31:54.359
The reporting that I read is literally just a fanny pack.

463
00:31:55.640 --> 00:31:59.640
The local authorities were even said to have contacted search

464
00:31:59.680 --> 00:32:05.319
and rest teams in neighboring areas, reportedly even an Oregon

465
00:32:05.759 --> 00:32:10.480
just in case. Sadly, eventually the search of the area

466
00:32:10.680 --> 00:32:15.799
was suspended without further plans to continue, though the authorities

467
00:32:15.839 --> 00:32:21.039
gave no indication they suspected foul play. Anu's DNA was

468
00:32:21.119 --> 00:32:26.319
submitted to the National Missing Person's Database. Now, to be fair,

469
00:32:26.519 --> 00:32:30.000
this would prove useful for identification in the event that

470
00:32:30.319 --> 00:32:35.240
remains were later discovered in the area. Though her body

471
00:32:35.319 --> 00:32:39.440
has never been located, officials do believe it is likely

472
00:32:39.640 --> 00:32:44.319
that Anu's come to the elements, whether by hypothermia or

473
00:32:44.519 --> 00:32:52.640
another natural cause. Officially, her case remains unsolved. However, I

474
00:32:52.680 --> 00:32:55.799
have some more comments to share to provide context to

475
00:32:56.079 --> 00:33:01.039
discussions around her case, as well as the very unofficial

476
00:33:01.079 --> 00:33:05.839
theories that have emerged in the years since Anu's disappearance.

477
00:33:07.200 --> 00:33:10.039
Okay, I was wondering, what what do they do in

478
00:33:10.160 --> 00:33:13.799
terms of searching if, like, they lost her scent at

479
00:33:13.880 --> 00:33:18.359
a paved road. So I understand that they were still

480
00:33:18.400 --> 00:33:22.039
like searching the area, but were they like, is there

481
00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:25.400
other places they would then search or did they search

482
00:33:25.519 --> 00:33:31.599
or did they just search the area like the park area.

483
00:33:30.279 --> 00:33:35.839
Ultimately because it's I mean it's a massive national forest.

484
00:33:36.480 --> 00:33:42.519
They did search a lot of the area surrounding the campground,

485
00:33:42.759 --> 00:33:47.880
and they also reached out to other authorities in the area,

486
00:33:48.279 --> 00:33:53.440
and I mean literally even in the neighboring state.

487
00:33:54.119 --> 00:33:54.720
Yeah.

488
00:33:55.079 --> 00:34:01.759
So I don't think that the search was is necessarily

489
00:34:02.160 --> 00:34:07.960
inadequate or you know, but I do think it presents

490
00:34:08.000 --> 00:34:13.199
some challenges when they use scent dogs and then they

491
00:34:13.280 --> 00:34:16.079
kind of come to a dead end with that, especially

492
00:34:16.119 --> 00:34:24.559
based on these specific circumstances. And unfortunately, I mean, this

493
00:34:24.679 --> 00:34:29.119
is someone who is unfortunate that they were naked, only

494
00:34:29.199 --> 00:34:33.679
in the sense that there's not a lot for them

495
00:34:33.719 --> 00:34:35.920
to be able to leave behind. You can't rip off

496
00:34:35.960 --> 00:34:39.679
the sleeve of your T shirt and leave it somewhere

497
00:34:39.719 --> 00:34:40.559
as like a marker.

498
00:34:41.519 --> 00:34:43.960
Yeah, that's true, which.

499
00:34:43.920 --> 00:34:47.039
I'm sure is not where your head is at all

500
00:34:47.400 --> 00:34:52.599
at when you're you know, going out on a spiritual quest, right,

501
00:34:52.760 --> 00:34:56.360
And again I think it's I think it is important

502
00:34:56.360 --> 00:35:00.360
to note that you know, this is you know, she

503
00:35:00.719 --> 00:35:04.840
said I'll be back before midnight, but that was fully

504
00:35:05.840 --> 00:35:09.800
seven hours prior. I mean, this is like still very

505
00:35:09.880 --> 00:35:14.760
much daylight hours. I feel like it kind of bakes

506
00:35:14.760 --> 00:35:18.280
the question like what happened while there was still a

507
00:35:18.360 --> 00:35:26.079
light outside? And there's a lot of different potential explanations obviously.

508
00:35:26.480 --> 00:35:29.679
Yeah, yeah, okay, I was just kind of wondering, like

509
00:35:29.719 --> 00:35:31.480
what do you what do they do? I guess they

510
00:35:31.480 --> 00:35:34.199
would like wait for a tip or maybe like.

511
00:35:34.239 --> 00:35:40.280
Her, or to find person. Yeah, hopefully you find something

512
00:35:40.719 --> 00:35:45.519
in the forest that somehow indicates you know, I don't

513
00:35:45.559 --> 00:35:49.400
know what that would be. It's hard to say. Okay,

514
00:35:49.960 --> 00:35:55.079
So theory number one, she is no longer missing or

515
00:35:55.719 --> 00:36:01.000
never was, and in this instance where sort of citing

516
00:36:01.400 --> 00:36:06.199
various reasons or it's kind of a kind of a

517
00:36:06.440 --> 00:36:10.320
it's multiple theories. It's like one A, one B one,

518
00:36:10.559 --> 00:36:15.559
you know. For reference, her last YouTube video was uploaded

519
00:36:15.599 --> 00:36:20.519
two days before her disappearance, and her Facebook account has

520
00:36:20.960 --> 00:36:25.440
also remained dormant. We're back to the comments.

521
00:36:26.280 --> 00:36:27.039
I don't like this.

522
00:36:27.840 --> 00:36:31.280
I will say that a lot of the comments did

523
00:36:31.320 --> 00:36:34.920
not make me feel good, but there were some, and

524
00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:37.519
I do believe that I have one. A little bit

525
00:36:37.679 --> 00:36:42.039
later here, I feel it sort of renewed my faith

526
00:36:42.239 --> 00:36:46.360
in humanity for what it's worth, Okay, a little bit.

527
00:36:47.400 --> 00:36:51.079
If she was recovered alive, the family may have kept

528
00:36:51.119 --> 00:36:55.679
it private because they perceived her as requiring mental health intervention.

529
00:36:56.960 --> 00:37:00.280
This is pure speculation, of course. I have no idea

530
00:37:00.440 --> 00:37:03.400
if she was suffering from mental illness or just a

531
00:37:03.400 --> 00:37:07.599
free spirit following her heart, but if she was recovered

532
00:37:07.760 --> 00:37:13.199
and required hospitalization, her family may have kept it quiet. Unfortunately,

533
00:37:13.760 --> 00:37:17.880
there is still a terrible stigma about mental illness, despite

534
00:37:17.880 --> 00:37:21.719
the strides made to normalize it in recent years. Again,

535
00:37:22.039 --> 00:37:26.880
I'm only speculating, since we're still waiting on confirmation she

536
00:37:27.000 --> 00:37:30.480
was even recovered at all. I hope she was, and

537
00:37:30.519 --> 00:37:34.119
that she's doing well, and that she found the answers

538
00:37:34.400 --> 00:37:39.599
she was looking for that day. So this hints at

539
00:37:39.639 --> 00:37:45.960
some speculation that the family people have specifically pointed to

540
00:37:46.119 --> 00:37:49.840
her brother as someone who may have helped her to

541
00:37:50.800 --> 00:37:56.480
ob the skate her own missing person's investigation. There is

542
00:37:56.920 --> 00:38:01.000
just next to nothing that substains youts this at all,

543
00:38:01.400 --> 00:38:04.960
and I can understand having the thought and this person

544
00:38:05.000 --> 00:38:09.519
I do feel like at least approach this in a

545
00:38:09.639 --> 00:38:15.039
semi respectful and responsible way by saying this is purely speculation.

546
00:38:17.119 --> 00:38:19.639
But we do have some additional comments.

547
00:38:20.559 --> 00:38:22.360
I don't really understand what they're trying to say.

548
00:38:23.239 --> 00:38:27.679
Yeah, I think, I think what they are implying is that,

549
00:38:27.880 --> 00:38:30.039
you know, she may have been having some sort of

550
00:38:30.039 --> 00:38:35.000
a mental health episode, and that once she was recovered,

551
00:38:35.400 --> 00:38:41.320
her family has not spoken publicly to confirm or deny

552
00:38:41.440 --> 00:38:46.079
that she has been found because they are seeking mental

553
00:38:46.079 --> 00:38:52.079
health treatment for her. Okay, which is admittedly a possibility.

554
00:38:52.239 --> 00:38:56.119
But again, you know, this is, this is what happens.

555
00:38:57.199 --> 00:39:01.000
It's you know, that just seems like way out there

556
00:39:01.360 --> 00:39:03.639
it is. I don't know it is, and I do

557
00:39:03.719 --> 00:39:08.760
feel like, you know, some comments are approaching the situation

558
00:39:09.039 --> 00:39:12.840
and the discussion a little bit more respectfully, and like

559
00:39:12.880 --> 00:39:17.880
I said responsibly about you know, I'm acknowledging that this

560
00:39:17.960 --> 00:39:21.320
is pure speculation, but like, based on the information I have,

561
00:39:21.519 --> 00:39:23.320
maybe this is sort of my theory.

562
00:39:24.199 --> 00:39:24.639
I get that.

563
00:39:25.559 --> 00:39:30.320
So some subsequent comments, Well, you know, I hope you're right.

564
00:39:30.760 --> 00:39:33.320
I know I don't know her, but I wish they

565
00:39:33.320 --> 00:39:35.840
would let those of us who think of her know

566
00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:41.880
she's all right too. No personal details needed. An additional comment,

567
00:39:42.159 --> 00:39:45.239
I'm pretty sure if her nameless page is still active,

568
00:39:45.559 --> 00:39:51.199
then she is still missing an additional response, not necessarily.

569
00:39:51.920 --> 00:39:55.760
Megan Good of the Charlie Project speaks frequently of her

570
00:39:55.840 --> 00:40:00.719
frustration with NamUs because they often leave up profile well

571
00:40:00.800 --> 00:40:04.880
after a person has been recovered. She reaches out to

572
00:40:04.920 --> 00:40:07.480
them to ask that a page be taken down and

573
00:40:07.679 --> 00:40:09.519
generally gets no response.

574
00:40:10.440 --> 00:40:11.800
Really is that true?

575
00:40:12.360 --> 00:40:13.039
Hard to say?

576
00:40:14.039 --> 00:40:15.039
I feel like you should know.

577
00:40:15.880 --> 00:40:22.039
I have not seen this accusation levied frequently, and I

578
00:40:22.079 --> 00:40:25.320
can only speak to my experience of like, you know

579
00:40:25.400 --> 00:40:29.480
what I've come across when I research. But we will

580
00:40:29.519 --> 00:40:33.360
come back to this comment about NamUs and her status

581
00:40:33.360 --> 00:40:38.320
in a little bit. Okay, so related to sort of

582
00:40:38.360 --> 00:40:44.440
this theory of like she's not missing or possibly never was.

583
00:40:45.480 --> 00:40:49.559
Anyone else think it's strange that after December of twenty seventeen,

584
00:40:49.719 --> 00:40:54.280
the family completely stopped posting about her. Her mother would

585
00:40:54.320 --> 00:40:57.719
post on her wall very often, even on holidays. Now

586
00:40:57.719 --> 00:40:58.360
it's nothing.

587
00:41:00.159 --> 00:41:02.079
I was going to ask, like it does her family

588
00:41:02.119 --> 00:41:05.360
still like look for her, say anything about looking for her?

589
00:41:06.239 --> 00:41:09.480
And I feel like those are questions that it's natural

590
00:41:09.599 --> 00:41:13.679
to have. I will say that I understand that impulse,

591
00:41:14.440 --> 00:41:18.280
but at the same time, people don't handle this type

592
00:41:18.320 --> 00:41:26.679
of grief and lost. There's there like there's no right answer.

593
00:41:28.000 --> 00:41:31.760
One thing I did find very interesting is that they're

594
00:41:33.840 --> 00:41:38.360
in these groups, and I'm sure this does happen in

595
00:41:38.400 --> 00:41:42.880
some of these message boards. There were more than a

596
00:41:42.920 --> 00:41:47.840
few people that did purport to know her and or

597
00:41:47.880 --> 00:41:52.199
her family personally, and I'm sure maybe some of these

598
00:41:52.280 --> 00:41:56.360
commenters do. As someone who grew up with her. Her

599
00:41:56.400 --> 00:42:00.119
brother had addiction issues last I knew, and I think

600
00:42:00.119 --> 00:42:04.440
that was probably a large aspect behind his post. There's

601
00:42:04.519 --> 00:42:07.000
sort of an infamous post. I think it's a big

602
00:42:07.079 --> 00:42:11.880
nothing burger. I think it speaks to someone who's experiencing

603
00:42:12.079 --> 00:42:17.679
an incredibly It's just they're experiencing loss. Even if she

604
00:42:18.000 --> 00:42:24.039
is found, there's nothing definitive. Essentially, what it amounts to

605
00:42:24.400 --> 00:42:29.360
was they created a Facebook page for you know, her

606
00:42:29.480 --> 00:42:33.320
case and for her disappearance, and at some point he

607
00:42:33.559 --> 00:42:37.920
posted basically, if you're looking for answers, you're not going

608
00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:41.239
to find them here. And I feel like, to me,

609
00:42:42.280 --> 00:42:44.920
that just sounds like someone who is grappling with this

610
00:42:45.239 --> 00:42:48.760
immense loss and really struggling with the fact that they

611
00:42:48.760 --> 00:42:52.760
have no answers about their loved one. Yeah, I don't

612
00:42:52.800 --> 00:42:55.320
think that I find it the lightning rod that some

613
00:42:55.440 --> 00:43:00.599
other people do on various social media platforms. Maybe they're

614
00:43:00.719 --> 00:43:01.960
right and I'm wrong.

615
00:43:01.840 --> 00:43:05.800
But I could totally see though, how like it in

616
00:43:06.079 --> 00:43:10.400
unsolved case, there's like no information and then that, like,

617
00:43:10.480 --> 00:43:14.880
I could see how people jump on that. Absolutely that's sad.

618
00:43:16.320 --> 00:43:20.199
This commenter goes on to say, I have questions as

619
00:43:20.239 --> 00:43:24.400
to why her friends let her leave naked and intoxicated.

620
00:43:25.159 --> 00:43:28.039
To my knowledge, they were all doing mushrooms and she

621
00:43:28.280 --> 00:43:32.679
just up and walked off. Essentially easily could have been stopped.

622
00:43:33.400 --> 00:43:36.159
It's strange to me that her friends let her leave

623
00:43:36.639 --> 00:43:39.599
and that her trail dropped off at a road that

624
00:43:39.679 --> 00:43:44.039
screams foul play to me. Sorry, I am commenting so late.

625
00:43:44.280 --> 00:43:47.000
I decided to look her up today and this post

626
00:43:47.039 --> 00:43:51.199
showed up, And this comment is actually quite a bit

627
00:43:51.320 --> 00:43:53.920
more recent than many of the others.

628
00:43:54.360 --> 00:43:57.039
I mean, I definitely have those same thoughts too, But like,

629
00:43:57.840 --> 00:44:02.360
if you're all shrooming, supposedly are like all intoxicated. I mean,

630
00:44:02.400 --> 00:44:06.679
maybe they didn't designate a babysitter like Pible knows what

631
00:44:06.719 --> 00:44:09.800
everyone else if they were tripping balls, you know?

632
00:44:10.719 --> 00:44:14.599
Yeah, yeah, I mean, And just because the police didn't

633
00:44:14.639 --> 00:44:17.440
find any evidence that that was the case doesn't mean

634
00:44:17.440 --> 00:44:22.079
that it wasn't. But I think the fact that that

635
00:44:22.199 --> 00:44:25.840
law enforcement in this case has come out and said, like,

636
00:44:25.960 --> 00:44:30.159
we have not found anything to substantiate that as being

637
00:44:30.199 --> 00:44:33.519
an aspect of the case, Where are you getting this

638
00:44:33.679 --> 00:44:41.159
information that everybody or anyone was on any type of psychedelics?

639
00:44:41.440 --> 00:44:44.199
Like are they just assuming or like where can we.

640
00:44:44.400 --> 00:44:47.639
Feel very much like there are a lot of assumptions

641
00:44:47.719 --> 00:44:52.519
being made, And unfortunately, to me, I felt like maybe

642
00:44:52.599 --> 00:44:57.320
I am maybe it's me, and maybe I'm being too extreme,

643
00:44:57.400 --> 00:45:02.480
But to leap from a nineteen year old that is

644
00:45:02.599 --> 00:45:05.000
saying they want to go on a spiritual quest, which

645
00:45:05.079 --> 00:45:09.159
admitted late there are implications there are things that we're

646
00:45:09.199 --> 00:45:11.880
all going to sort of like I've rolling around in

647
00:45:11.920 --> 00:45:14.480
the back of our heads. But to go from that

648
00:45:15.039 --> 00:45:21.559
to she joined a tribe or a cult? Yeah, Okay,

649
00:45:21.639 --> 00:45:25.239
first of all, how racist can you be? Yeah, I

650
00:45:25.280 --> 00:45:29.039
don't know. Maybe that person thought that there was some

651
00:45:29.079 --> 00:45:32.800
sort of a tribal association out there that was coldish.

652
00:45:32.360 --> 00:45:36.280
I really don't know. I'm not sure, but I think

653
00:45:37.039 --> 00:45:42.199
it feels very problematic to me to assume that there

654
00:45:42.440 --> 00:45:47.119
is a brown person and there has to be some

655
00:45:47.239 --> 00:45:51.000
sort of like this nefarious connection to that.

656
00:45:52.000 --> 00:45:52.800
Yeah.

657
00:45:53.239 --> 00:45:56.280
I don't know, men, And maybe I'm reading too much

658
00:45:56.280 --> 00:45:59.400
into that, But as I'm reading all of these things,

659
00:45:59.400 --> 00:46:04.039
I'm thinking, do they understand that she's actually not native

660
00:46:04.239 --> 00:46:09.840
or indigenous? She's Asian Pacific islander according to all of

661
00:46:09.880 --> 00:46:13.000
the other data out there. So do they just assume

662
00:46:13.079 --> 00:46:17.800
that all brown people are members of a cult or

663
00:46:19.199 --> 00:46:19.840
a tribe.

664
00:46:19.960 --> 00:46:20.159
Yeah?

665
00:46:20.199 --> 00:46:24.679
Again, again, I'm extrapolating on things that people have said,

666
00:46:24.800 --> 00:46:28.760
and maybe maybe this is me taking it like they

667
00:46:28.800 --> 00:46:32.119
went too far and I'm going that much further. I

668
00:46:32.280 --> 00:46:37.559
just feel like your take was icky. Yeah, it just

669
00:46:37.599 --> 00:46:41.960
felt like none of this changes the facts of the

670
00:46:42.039 --> 00:46:44.880
case in terms of like, this is where she went missing,

671
00:46:45.480 --> 00:46:48.559
this is who we're looking for. And I get that

672
00:46:48.599 --> 00:46:51.280
there would be interest in other details of the case,

673
00:46:51.360 --> 00:46:54.760
but like, we haven't found her yet. Yeah, so like

674
00:46:54.920 --> 00:46:56.239
maybe let's focus on that.

675
00:46:56.440 --> 00:46:59.239
I don't know, I think like it's harmful too to

676
00:46:59.320 --> 00:47:02.360
imply that she you like, up and joined something or like,

677
00:47:03.280 --> 00:47:07.440
because then they'll stop looking for her, Like I do.

678
00:47:07.679 --> 00:47:09.519
I think that's a part of it to me too,

679
00:47:09.719 --> 00:47:13.599
is that like assuming that you know she's done something wrong.

680
00:47:14.559 --> 00:47:18.559
It's concerning. It's concerning. I don't think that the police

681
00:47:18.599 --> 00:47:24.239
are necessarily reading reddit boards, you know, they're not. They're

682
00:47:24.280 --> 00:47:29.960
not checking through subreddits and reading YouTube comments, right, hopefully

683
00:47:30.239 --> 00:47:33.760
in connection professionally to a case.

684
00:47:33.920 --> 00:47:37.800
But maybe maybe if they don't have anything, maybe they

685
00:47:37.800 --> 00:47:39.679
do send someone to scour the internet.

686
00:47:39.760 --> 00:47:42.480
I mean, we we do know that that can be

687
00:47:42.559 --> 00:47:46.000
an aspect of an investigation. So again, I just I

688
00:47:46.039 --> 00:47:48.960
don't know. I didn't like it. I don't like it.

689
00:47:49.079 --> 00:47:52.599
I'm never gonna like it. Okay. So the final in

690
00:47:52.840 --> 00:47:56.159
this series of comments, she wanted to go on what

691
00:47:56.239 --> 00:47:59.400
she called a spiritual quest and thought it to be

692
00:48:00.280 --> 00:48:04.199
a spiritual quest in doing so. In that mind state,

693
00:48:04.360 --> 00:48:08.840
also it wasn't okay to allow her to do that alone,

694
00:48:08.920 --> 00:48:11.760
and I wouldn't have ever let it happen, but I

695
00:48:11.960 --> 00:48:16.280
moved and wasn't able to protect her. The people there

696
00:48:16.320 --> 00:48:18.679
that night if they let her go knowing she went,

697
00:48:19.000 --> 00:48:23.000
and I know they did because I heard their stories myself,

698
00:48:23.639 --> 00:48:26.880
and as I told them, they should let that way

699
00:48:26.960 --> 00:48:31.599
on them. They deserve it too. I'm so disgusted with

700
00:48:31.800 --> 00:48:35.320
anyone who would let that happen. She may have been

701
00:48:35.360 --> 00:48:39.320
picked up at the highway. She was the brightest energy

702
00:48:39.559 --> 00:48:45.840
I've ever met. There's a lot going on with that one.

703
00:48:44.800 --> 00:48:48.000
But is and it's a lot of blame. I definitely

704
00:48:48.079 --> 00:48:50.280
understand you got to look out for your friends, but

705
00:48:50.400 --> 00:48:55.840
like she was an adult, Yeah, you can't necessarily just

706
00:48:55.880 --> 00:48:58.400
stop somebody from doing something they want to do. I

707
00:48:58.400 --> 00:49:00.400
don't know, And she was naked. Are they going to

708
00:49:00.480 --> 00:49:01.719
do the hands all over?

709
00:49:02.480 --> 00:49:06.000
Also, it's daylight hours, so at that point, maybe wasn't

710
00:49:06.079 --> 00:49:10.559
that alarming. Yeah, I feel like there's a lot of

711
00:49:10.639 --> 00:49:13.360
shade being thrown at the friends, and I feel like,

712
00:49:13.519 --> 00:49:17.400
based on the scenario that they were actually in, I

713
00:49:17.559 --> 00:49:21.840
just don't think that it's as salacious as some of

714
00:49:21.880 --> 00:49:26.639
the coverage has maybe led people to believe that would.

715
00:49:26.480 --> 00:49:29.159
Be awful too to be those friends and if you

716
00:49:29.239 --> 00:49:34.159
truly didn't do anything right wrong, like how awful would

717
00:49:34.239 --> 00:49:36.559
you feel? And then you have people kind of thinking

718
00:49:36.599 --> 00:49:38.760
that maybe you had something to do with it, or

719
00:49:38.800 --> 00:49:40.920
you are to blame for letting her go.

720
00:49:42.800 --> 00:49:46.880
I love that I'm realizing in this moment why I

721
00:49:47.000 --> 00:49:49.800
wanted to mention that she was a Libra.

722
00:49:50.519 --> 00:49:56.519
This is such Libra energy. Yeah, seeing both sides things. Yeah,

723
00:49:56.559 --> 00:49:57.119
and it's.

724
00:49:56.960 --> 00:50:01.039
All about it's all about like the scales injustice. And

725
00:50:01.079 --> 00:50:04.960
I just was like, wow, how is this hitting me

726
00:50:05.199 --> 00:50:09.400
in real time? As much time as I've spent researching

727
00:50:09.840 --> 00:50:14.199
and writing this up. How how did that not occur

728
00:50:14.280 --> 00:50:19.679
to me until just now? But here we are. Her

729
00:50:19.719 --> 00:50:23.920
social media has been quiet, but some have seen indications

730
00:50:24.239 --> 00:50:27.760
that her families perceived silence in the years following her

731
00:50:27.800 --> 00:50:33.480
disappearance might also be an indication that they know something

732
00:50:33.639 --> 00:50:37.280
the public at large just not, which I feel like

733
00:50:37.400 --> 00:50:40.559
is a really that's it's a really tough pill to

734
00:50:40.639 --> 00:50:44.239
swallow that somebody could be missing and their family could

735
00:50:44.320 --> 00:50:47.440
be you know, covering for them, or somebody could be

736
00:50:48.079 --> 00:50:52.559
classified as missing and not actually missing. I will say this.

737
00:50:52.920 --> 00:50:57.199
There were a lot of comments, and I initially screenshotted

738
00:50:57.519 --> 00:51:01.639
several and intended to read them as part of this

739
00:51:02.840 --> 00:51:05.559
that we're talking about comments that her brother had made

740
00:51:05.760 --> 00:51:11.039
on her missing person's page, comments specifically talking about how

741
00:51:11.480 --> 00:51:15.480
the family had stopped posting about her. And I was like, oh,

742
00:51:15.559 --> 00:51:20.880
my god, I'm concerned because and I'm sure you could

743
00:51:20.880 --> 00:51:24.719
do this with almost any other case, but this case,

744
00:51:25.320 --> 00:51:29.679
it didn't have as much information out there about it

745
00:51:29.719 --> 00:51:33.079
as I would have liked. And I started trying to

746
00:51:33.199 --> 00:51:38.280
look for more information, and I wanted to know what

747
00:51:38.360 --> 00:51:41.679
people thought about the case. But I got a little

748
00:51:41.719 --> 00:51:47.000
bit panicked, thinking, my gosh, like, is it possible that

749
00:51:47.920 --> 00:51:53.880
she's not missing? Like is it possible that just some

750
00:51:54.000 --> 00:51:58.599
of this stuff hasn't been updated. I really, I really

751
00:51:58.639 --> 00:52:02.840
started to worry. And here's the thing, even if that

752
00:52:02.920 --> 00:52:08.519
were the case, I I would rather talk about someone

753
00:52:08.559 --> 00:52:13.400
who I thought was missing but had been bound yeah,

754
00:52:13.440 --> 00:52:18.079
than to have their case go like into the cold

755
00:52:18.159 --> 00:52:25.079
dark night. Oh but my text to you guys was

756
00:52:25.159 --> 00:52:32.239
going to be about I decided not to send it

757
00:52:32.320 --> 00:52:38.119
because I couldn not give away what we were going

758
00:52:38.159 --> 00:52:42.119
to be talking about, and it was it would have

759
00:52:42.199 --> 00:52:48.440
made no fucking sense. But my text was going to

760
00:52:48.440 --> 00:52:54.400
be to the effect of, I am so relieved, I

761
00:52:54.480 --> 00:53:01.880
am like sad, happy, crying right now because I I mean,

762
00:53:01.920 --> 00:53:08.039
I went full like web sleuth level shit and I don't.

763
00:53:08.440 --> 00:53:12.599
I that's not something that I necessarily do for every case,

764
00:53:12.679 --> 00:53:20.960
but I I wanted to know that people miss miss

765
00:53:21.000 --> 00:53:28.519
her and they fucking do they really do? If they're

766
00:53:28.639 --> 00:53:32.400
lying or they know something that we don't, they're doing

767
00:53:32.440 --> 00:53:35.679
a damn good job of keeping it under wraps, and

768
00:53:37.000 --> 00:53:39.280
here's hoping they have a good reason. I don't think

769
00:53:39.320 --> 00:53:42.599
that's the case. I really don't, and I feel like

770
00:53:42.920 --> 00:53:47.920
there's so many shitty things that people have said. But

771
00:53:48.280 --> 00:53:54.840
her brother on June ninth, twenty twenty four, missing you

772
00:53:54.960 --> 00:53:58.800
extra today. You're the most beautiful soul I've ever met.

773
00:53:59.440 --> 00:54:02.519
I'm forever grateful for you, and it hurts so bad

774
00:54:03.239 --> 00:54:05.519
I can't hold you tight and tell you I love

775
00:54:05.559 --> 00:54:09.000
you one more time. I'm so fortunate to have these

776
00:54:09.119 --> 00:54:12.719
videos you've made to comfort me and remind me of

777
00:54:12.840 --> 00:54:16.760
everything we've ever done together. You're my best friend forever,

778
00:54:16.920 --> 00:54:20.039
and I hope to see you again. It's one of

779
00:54:20.360 --> 00:54:23.239
a couple of posts that he made about her in

780
00:54:23.360 --> 00:54:29.440
twenty twenty four, and unless he's scouring Reddit and thinking

781
00:54:29.519 --> 00:54:31.480
he's got to cover some shit up.

782
00:54:31.800 --> 00:54:32.199
I just.

783
00:54:33.800 --> 00:54:37.639
I know that people can say what they think and

784
00:54:37.679 --> 00:54:43.519
what they feel or suspect in a case, but this

785
00:54:43.559 --> 00:54:46.639
one really got me. This one really got me because

786
00:54:46.679 --> 00:54:51.800
I just felt like everyone has been young and done

787
00:54:51.920 --> 00:54:56.440
things that maybe weren't the best idea. It doesn't mean

788
00:54:56.519 --> 00:54:59.800
that they deserved bad things to happen to them.

789
00:55:01.159 --> 00:55:04.320
No, not at all. I mean, gosh, even if she

790
00:55:04.559 --> 00:55:11.440
was totally super super fucking high and like went out

791
00:55:11.480 --> 00:55:15.039
and like, that still does not mean that she doesn't

792
00:55:15.079 --> 00:55:17.440
deserve to be looked for or right.

793
00:55:19.320 --> 00:55:23.320
I just yeah, the fact, and I don't think that

794
00:55:23.400 --> 00:55:26.280
there's anyone that came out and said, well, she was high,

795
00:55:26.320 --> 00:55:29.360
so nobody should be looking for her. But I feel

796
00:55:29.480 --> 00:55:33.559
like what people say in so many words and the

797
00:55:33.599 --> 00:55:39.360
implications like that matters. Yeah, it's like, well you deserved it,

798
00:55:39.599 --> 00:55:41.760
Like right, what was she wearing?

799
00:55:42.320 --> 00:55:50.400
Yeah? Nothing kind of doesn't matter, doesn't It actually does

800
00:55:50.480 --> 00:55:51.039
not matter.

801
00:55:53.039 --> 00:55:57.239
Obviously. There's the hotly debated theory that the disappearance was

802
00:55:57.280 --> 00:56:01.760
brought about by a psychedelic experience going wrong, but there

803
00:56:01.840 --> 00:56:08.880
are some additional theories. While some have postulated that Anu

804
00:56:09.079 --> 00:56:12.320
sent dropping off at the paved section of road might

805
00:56:12.440 --> 00:56:16.360
mean she had run off with an unknown party in

806
00:56:16.400 --> 00:56:19.960
a bid to flee her family and friends to find freedom,

807
00:56:21.320 --> 00:56:26.440
others have speculated whether she may have been forcibly abducted

808
00:56:26.559 --> 00:56:32.119
from that same location instead, And while it seems far fetched,

809
00:56:32.280 --> 00:56:36.039
the name of at least one infamous serial killer has

810
00:56:36.039 --> 00:56:40.400
been mentioned in passing, if not directly in connection to

811
00:56:40.559 --> 00:56:47.960
her case. No, I think that the consensus is that

812
00:56:48.000 --> 00:56:53.159
this is unlikely, just given the remoteness of the location.

813
00:56:55.119 --> 00:56:57.639
But I am going to read to you some comments

814
00:56:57.639 --> 00:57:01.039
here as a Washington resident, and I find it more

815
00:57:01.079 --> 00:57:05.280
plausible that she died of something nature related than foul play,

816
00:57:05.840 --> 00:57:10.599
although I recognize foul play is possible. I'm not familiar

817
00:57:10.679 --> 00:57:14.000
with the environs of the campground she left, but the

818
00:57:14.079 --> 00:57:17.840
forests are dense here. Think of how hard it was

819
00:57:17.920 --> 00:57:26.599
to locate many of Ridgeway's victims. Never Bundy, did I

820
00:57:26.679 --> 00:57:32.320
believe come up in an additional comment that I did

821
00:57:32.360 --> 00:57:35.719
not save good hashtag.

822
00:57:35.320 --> 00:57:40.360
Never I I was hoping you were going to say him, Yeah.

823
00:57:39.920 --> 00:57:46.000
No, Unfortunately, just based on the geographic location, Ridgeway would

824
00:57:46.039 --> 00:57:51.920
be the the more relevant, arguably, But in one of

825
00:57:51.960 --> 00:57:57.960
the Reddit threads that I was looking at, someone posted

826
00:57:58.039 --> 00:58:01.920
a link to a YouTube video and they were insistent

827
00:58:02.039 --> 00:58:05.360
that the person that they saw in the video was

828
00:58:05.679 --> 00:58:16.199
on Having watched a portion of this YouTube video, I

829
00:58:16.239 --> 00:58:19.719
can safely say I do not believe this person is

830
00:58:19.840 --> 00:58:24.360
on you, and I sincerely hope it is not. It

831
00:58:24.480 --> 00:58:31.519
is someone who is clearly unhoused and may or may

832
00:58:31.559 --> 00:58:37.280
not be experiencing mental illness and or some substance issues.

833
00:58:39.639 --> 00:58:45.480
Not great. The section of the comments not necessarily related

834
00:58:45.519 --> 00:58:48.760
to that, but this is kind of in the same

835
00:58:49.320 --> 00:58:55.519
region of that block that that I'm gonna read from.

836
00:58:56.639 --> 00:59:01.679
So it starts, really, who, when and where did you

837
00:59:01.800 --> 00:59:05.239
see this? And then it really just takes a hard

838
00:59:05.320 --> 00:59:08.440
left and they go in a different direction. There is

839
00:59:08.519 --> 00:59:12.000
another thread. It is not interesting to read, and it

840
00:59:12.079 --> 00:59:15.719
is upsetting if you think that you were about to

841
00:59:15.760 --> 00:59:18.400
see a video of a person that has been missing,

842
00:59:18.519 --> 00:59:22.480
and maybe this case is solved, hope, beyond hope. I

843
00:59:22.519 --> 00:59:27.760
can only imagine for anybody that actually knew her, even tangentially,

844
00:59:28.000 --> 00:59:33.960
how they would have felt, and arguably, wow, just what

845
00:59:34.079 --> 00:59:42.079
a shitty feeling. And there are purportedly multiple people that

846
00:59:42.199 --> 00:59:44.800
did know her that had been active in these threads,

847
00:59:45.159 --> 00:59:51.360
and that person who did view the video and comment

848
00:59:51.880 --> 00:59:56.079
and respond said, you know, this is a hard no,

849
00:59:56.440 --> 01:00:00.880
this is definitely not her. It's hard breaking to think

850
01:00:00.920 --> 01:00:05.760
about them opening that link and like, in a weird way,

851
01:00:06.039 --> 01:00:09.280
hoping beyond hope that maybe this is her and she's

852
01:00:09.320 --> 01:00:15.559
safe and maybe there's some sort of explanation or I can't.

853
01:00:15.880 --> 01:00:18.320
I mean, the hardest thing about a missing person's case

854
01:00:18.400 --> 01:00:21.119
has to be that you just don't have answers, and

855
01:00:21.199 --> 01:00:24.760
to think that you're going to get an answer, whether

856
01:00:24.800 --> 01:00:27.880
it's the good, bad, or the ugly, even for a minute.

857
01:00:28.039 --> 01:00:35.840
I yeah, this is a local in the area that's commented.

858
01:00:36.920 --> 01:00:39.920
I want to add for people unfamiliar with the area,

859
01:00:40.199 --> 01:00:43.880
there is no cell phone reception and no satellite reception.

860
01:00:44.840 --> 01:00:47.840
Even though it was twenty thirteen, she wouldn't have been

861
01:00:47.880 --> 01:00:51.239
able to just call someone to pick her up in

862
01:00:51.280 --> 01:00:56.199
the remote woods like that. That campground is really remote

863
01:00:56.480 --> 01:00:58.599
and in the middle of nowhere, with a bunch of

864
01:00:58.679 --> 01:01:05.280
wilderness areas east and north of the creek. That makes sense, Yeah,

865
01:01:05.320 --> 01:01:11.960
I mean forest Service road. And this is another one

866
01:01:12.159 --> 01:01:16.960
where it's potentially someone that knows her or knows of her.

867
01:01:17.960 --> 01:01:20.559
I know her and her brother as well, but moved

868
01:01:20.599 --> 01:01:24.199
to New York. She was like my little sister. I

869
01:01:24.239 --> 01:01:27.000
grew up with the whole family and got in trouble

870
01:01:27.079 --> 01:01:30.880
and stuff, even stole car once with her brother Eloel.

871
01:01:31.079 --> 01:01:35.280
But she was the brightest energy you could ever imagine,

872
01:01:35.880 --> 01:01:38.440
and a waste to the world. And if her brother

873
01:01:38.559 --> 01:01:41.719
knew anything at all, I don't see how he would

874
01:01:41.760 --> 01:01:45.840
not say anything. I don't get it. He was protective

875
01:01:46.159 --> 01:01:52.880
over her. And one more comment, I saw a report

876
01:01:53.039 --> 01:01:57.320
that human remains were found in that area in August.

877
01:01:58.199 --> 01:02:03.480
Testing being done. Should know soon. So that is the

878
01:02:03.519 --> 01:02:06.800
one comment in this particular thread that hints at the

879
01:02:06.920 --> 01:02:14.679
latest theory from the Scamania County Sheriff's Office. On August tenth,

880
01:02:15.719 --> 01:02:20.639
twenty twenty four, a hiker recreating in the Big Lava Bed,

881
01:02:20.880 --> 01:02:26.079
located within the Gifford Pinchot National Forest in eastern Scamania County,

882
01:02:26.519 --> 01:02:31.039
reported locating human remains. The hiker found a human skull

883
01:02:31.239 --> 01:02:37.320
and captured the GPS coordinates of location. A deputy responded

884
01:02:37.360 --> 01:02:40.119
to the location the next day, but was unable to

885
01:02:40.199 --> 01:02:45.480
locate the skull. Reported the hiker volunteered to return to

886
01:02:45.559 --> 01:02:50.320
the area accompanied by a Scamania County sergeant, and the

887
01:02:50.400 --> 01:02:56.880
skull was recovered on August fifteenth, twenty twenty four WHOA.

888
01:02:57.559 --> 01:03:02.519
Based on the preliminary investigtion, it is believed the remains

889
01:03:02.559 --> 01:03:05.480
belonged to a higer that went missing in twenty thirteen.

890
01:03:08.039 --> 01:03:11.880
The missing higer was last observed in the Big Lava

891
01:03:11.920 --> 01:03:17.519
bed and after numerous coordinated search efforts, was never located.

892
01:03:18.000 --> 01:03:21.599
The goal, along with other remains located in the area,

893
01:03:21.800 --> 01:03:25.559
was transported to the Clark County Medical Examiner's Office for

894
01:03:25.800 --> 01:03:32.000
definitive identification. This is an ongoing investigation and no risk

895
01:03:32.119 --> 01:03:36.119
to the public has been identified, though I could not

896
01:03:36.280 --> 01:03:40.960
find any indication that law enforcement has provided confirmation or

897
01:03:41.039 --> 01:03:46.639
even publicly speculated about the possible identity of the remains.

898
01:03:47.400 --> 01:03:53.480
Many believe they are likely either Maureen Kelly or Christopher

899
01:03:55.000 --> 01:03:58.639
Zitzewitz going out on a limb here and I'm guessing

900
01:03:59.360 --> 01:04:05.639
on the pronunceia. I didn't bring up my proposal this

901
01:04:05.719 --> 01:04:09.679
year just because I wanted to talk about that, or

902
01:04:09.760 --> 01:04:13.800
even just because it lines up with this time of year. Arguably,

903
01:04:14.559 --> 01:04:18.920
the discovery of the remains that was literally within a

904
01:04:18.960 --> 01:04:21.800
couple of weeks of my wedding. Yeah, and it's nice

905
01:04:21.800 --> 01:04:24.800
to reminisce about like the good things that have happened

906
01:04:24.840 --> 01:04:29.199
in my life. I mean, getting engaged was super exciting,

907
01:04:29.320 --> 01:04:33.280
so much so that I but dialed pictures of my

908
01:04:33.360 --> 01:04:40.639
wrist and being a newly wet is another major milestone

909
01:04:40.760 --> 01:04:44.679
in my life. But it hit me when I got

910
01:04:44.679 --> 01:04:48.400
to a certain point in my research for this case

911
01:04:48.880 --> 01:04:55.239
that Anoo is only a handful of years younger than us.

912
01:04:56.360 --> 01:04:58.719
It's not like it's the first time that I looked

913
01:04:58.760 --> 01:05:03.079
into a disappearance of a woman. Obviously, for some reason,

914
01:05:04.320 --> 01:05:09.280
something about this case just it just it just hit different.

915
01:05:10.960 --> 01:05:14.960
It just hits somehow in a specific way at a

916
01:05:15.000 --> 01:05:19.039
specific time. And that's how we know when we want

917
01:05:19.079 --> 01:05:25.079
to talk about something. It's just there's so much, there's

918
01:05:25.119 --> 01:05:29.920
so much to experience in life between ages nineteen to

919
01:05:30.000 --> 01:05:34.559
thirty one. This September would mark her thirty second birthday,

920
01:05:35.880 --> 01:05:38.639
and I was doing a lot of the same things

921
01:05:38.679 --> 01:05:43.000
that Annie did at that age, even the ones that

922
01:05:43.079 --> 01:05:46.920
drew her so much ire all over the internet following

923
01:05:47.000 --> 01:05:51.400
her disappearance. Anybody ever been to Savi's Island?

924
01:05:52.440 --> 01:05:54.559
You know, do you remember at the very beginning of

925
01:05:54.599 --> 01:05:57.840
this episode when I was like, oh, you sent me nudes? Like,

926
01:05:57.960 --> 01:06:00.679
how did I know this is that I would have

927
01:06:00.760 --> 01:06:02.199
fit so well.

928
01:06:02.000 --> 01:06:06.559
In Yeah, oh my gosh, you guys, I have been

929
01:06:06.639 --> 01:06:12.639
to a beach where it is permissible to be nude.

930
01:06:13.280 --> 01:06:15.199
Yeah, I'm in.

931
01:06:18.079 --> 01:06:23.039
What I will say is that I think how we

932
01:06:23.119 --> 01:06:27.000
view people it changes based on some of the choices

933
01:06:27.039 --> 01:06:31.440
that they make, and then when they go missing, everything

934
01:06:31.559 --> 01:06:36.079
is under a microscope, but none of it makes her

935
01:06:36.199 --> 01:06:42.480
less missing. Marine Kelly was nineteen years old at the

936
01:06:42.519 --> 01:06:47.480
time of her disappearents an Asian Pacific Islander female with

937
01:06:47.800 --> 01:06:53.639
black hair, brown eyes, about five feet seven inches tall,

938
01:06:54.079 --> 01:06:56.960
weighing roughly one hundred and fifty to one hundred and

939
01:06:57.280 --> 01:07:04.960
sixty pounds. And whether it's the recent remains that helped

940
01:07:05.000 --> 01:07:09.599
to identify and bring her home. I hope her family

941
01:07:09.679 --> 01:07:14.760
has answers someday soon. This is just one that I

942
01:07:14.840 --> 01:07:21.679
didn't know going into this that there was potentially an update.

943
01:07:22.320 --> 01:07:26.039
Yeah. Wow. So they still haven't identified it at all.

944
01:07:26.760 --> 01:07:32.039
They have not released the identity of the remains. Oftentimes,

945
01:07:32.119 --> 01:07:37.519
for remains that are recovered when they do testing like this,

946
01:07:38.280 --> 01:07:43.000
it can take a significant amount of time before that

947
01:07:43.920 --> 01:07:47.480
result is back, and then even more so before the

948
01:07:47.519 --> 01:07:55.280
public is made available or made aware of the results. Yeah,

949
01:07:55.480 --> 01:07:59.280
I think it's not uncommon for it to take months sometimes,

950
01:08:00.079 --> 01:08:05.199
and I think honestly, based on everything that I have

951
01:08:05.360 --> 01:08:13.519
seen as an observer, it very possibly, very unfortunately typically years.

952
01:08:15.559 --> 01:08:19.720
We need to know, I know, I mean not just us,

953
01:08:19.760 --> 01:08:22.600
mostly for their families and their friends and loved ones,

954
01:08:22.640 --> 01:08:23.840
but like also.

955
01:08:23.760 --> 01:08:29.680
Us, everybody, everybody, like just we need to know. We

956
01:08:30.159 --> 01:08:32.680
the collective, We we need to know.

957
01:08:35.600 --> 01:08:39.560
An Yeah, we are.

958
01:08:41.039 --> 01:08:42.600
We're gonna do with the breed, and.

959
01:08:43.600 --> 01:08:47.119
I really hope they figure it out, I know, just

960
01:08:47.159 --> 01:08:48.520
like have some answers.

961
01:08:49.800 --> 01:08:54.000
Okay, I'm gonna go with this one because something when

962
01:08:54.000 --> 01:08:57.359
I split the deck this last time, I have drawn

963
01:08:58.239 --> 01:09:02.560
the King of Sorts. Oh, when I split the deck,

964
01:09:03.079 --> 01:09:06.800
I just felt like I was drawn to that, and

965
01:09:07.920 --> 01:09:12.079
I guess we are gonna see.

966
01:09:10.840 --> 01:09:15.600
Okay, okay, and what animal was on it?

967
01:09:15.600 --> 01:09:19.479
It looks like a like a heron of some sort. Okay,

968
01:09:19.520 --> 01:09:22.199
I'm going to read the main interpretation and then we'll

969
01:09:22.239 --> 01:09:23.439
take a look at the little book.

970
01:09:23.880 --> 01:09:24.159
Okay.

971
01:09:24.479 --> 01:09:31.920
Our keywords are judgment, intelligence, mental power, and communication. In

972
01:09:31.960 --> 01:09:35.279
some decks, the King of Swords sits on a throne,

973
01:09:35.520 --> 01:09:40.199
wearing royal robes and a crown and brandishing a mighty

974
01:09:40.319 --> 01:09:46.520
battle sword. Other decks show him in military armor. In

975
01:09:46.560 --> 01:09:50.199
a reading, he may represent an actual person, in which

976
01:09:50.279 --> 01:09:54.039
case he's usually a mature man known for his intelligence,

977
01:09:54.800 --> 01:10:03.279
communication skills, fairness, and objectivity. The Upper King represents intellectual pursuits,

978
01:10:03.880 --> 01:10:08.600
communication and spiritual knowledge and steady.

979
01:10:08.880 --> 01:10:12.119
A spiritual like a spiritual quest.

980
01:10:12.640 --> 01:10:16.199
Yes, yeah, I know, I was kind of that's exactly

981
01:10:16.199 --> 01:10:20.840
what I was thinking. Interesting, you may be mastering a

982
01:10:20.920 --> 01:10:26.840
mental task or using your communication skills successfully. Sometimes this

983
01:10:27.000 --> 01:10:32.479
card indicates a decision, judgment, or legal matter. If the

984
01:10:32.560 --> 01:10:37.159
King signifies an actual person, he may seem stern, analytical,

985
01:10:37.319 --> 01:10:42.920
or aloof, perhaps a lawyer or judge, a professor, military leader,

986
01:10:43.199 --> 01:10:48.479
scientist or religious leader, a cult leader. I'm not picking

987
01:10:48.560 --> 01:10:52.520
up that vibe, but I sort of was thinking, hmm,

988
01:10:53.640 --> 01:10:55.239
maybe I just hear.

989
01:10:55.039 --> 01:10:57.399
A lot of the word judgment too, and it just

990
01:10:57.439 --> 01:11:00.279
makes me think of like the comments like they'll all

991
01:11:00.319 --> 01:11:02.479
of the judgment from the people.

992
01:11:02.920 --> 01:11:07.239
So much judgment, and I feel like just based unfortunately

993
01:11:07.479 --> 01:11:08.680
not on a lot.

994
01:11:09.239 --> 01:11:09.960
Yeah.

995
01:11:10.000 --> 01:11:13.520
In a reading about money, the King upright recommends taking

996
01:11:13.640 --> 01:11:17.439
charge of a financial matter, do your homework, don't let

997
01:11:18.039 --> 01:11:24.079
your emotions influence a decision involving money or investments. This

998
01:11:24.159 --> 01:11:28.680
card may also mean profiting from an intellectual endeavor, which

999
01:11:28.720 --> 01:11:31.479
I assume means everyone is joining the Patreon.

1000
01:11:34.439 --> 01:11:36.600
It just it made me think of what you were

1001
01:11:36.640 --> 01:11:39.399
saying of how we don't make very good decisions when

1002
01:11:39.399 --> 01:11:42.800
we're younger and maybe like more I don't know, more emotional,

1003
01:11:43.600 --> 01:11:45.880
if that's the right word, but you were saying, like

1004
01:11:45.960 --> 01:11:49.039
our brain, yeah, fully developed or not making like really

1005
01:11:49.079 --> 01:11:50.159
good decisions.

1006
01:11:50.319 --> 01:11:53.119
So no, I think that that is such a good

1007
01:11:53.159 --> 01:11:56.119
point to draw though, because it is it's a little

1008
01:11:56.159 --> 01:12:00.520
bit more like leading from your heart, because you just

1009
01:12:00.560 --> 01:12:05.680
don't maybe have the experience to indicate where you maybe

1010
01:12:05.720 --> 01:12:10.279
should do otherwise. Yeah, if the reading is about your job,

1011
01:12:10.760 --> 01:12:13.720
it may indicate you work in a field that requires

1012
01:12:13.880 --> 01:12:19.760
keen intelligence, good communication, or analytical ability. The King advises

1013
01:12:19.800 --> 01:12:24.600
you to show leadership regarding decisions or judgments. Clarity and

1014
01:12:24.760 --> 01:12:32.000
objectivity are important. That almost makes me think of like

1015
01:12:32.079 --> 01:12:35.119
the sheriff. I don't know, I'm sort of thinking about

1016
01:12:35.720 --> 01:12:38.439
some of the statements that they have released, and they're

1017
01:12:38.479 --> 01:12:44.000
saying like it's unusual for this particular set of circumstances,

1018
01:12:44.039 --> 01:12:47.600
But we don't have any indication that, you know, drugs

1019
01:12:47.640 --> 01:12:52.319
are involved. Thinking about sort of coming from a place

1020
01:12:52.359 --> 01:12:57.920
of objectivity. In a reading about love, the king symbolizes

1021
01:12:58.119 --> 01:13:02.760
a relationship based on share interests and ideas rather than passion.

1022
01:13:03.600 --> 01:13:09.319
You and or your partner resist expressing deep emotions, preferring

1023
01:13:09.560 --> 01:13:14.039
a friendly partnership. Perhaps you fear losing independence if you

1024
01:13:14.239 --> 01:13:15.520
open your heart.

1025
01:13:16.359 --> 01:13:20.239
Oh, she wanted to be like free. Didn't you say

1026
01:13:20.279 --> 01:13:23.119
something about like freedom? Or were you just yeah? For

1027
01:13:23.319 --> 01:13:25.159
people speculating that.

1028
01:13:25.000 --> 01:13:29.920
She it's hard to know how much is speculation and

1029
01:13:29.960 --> 01:13:34.920
how much people have extrapolated, Even on direct quotes from

1030
01:13:35.000 --> 01:13:40.479
people close to the situation, I will say I was correct.

1031
01:13:41.359 --> 01:13:45.640
It was a It was a blue heron. Ooh yeah,

1032
01:13:46.159 --> 01:13:52.479
great blue heron. Authority born of rational thought, clarity of

1033
01:13:52.560 --> 01:14:00.560
mind and purpose, insight, seriousness and strictness, exacting standards and

1034
01:14:00.720 --> 01:14:06.039
true true. Yeah. I feel like, I don't know, I

1035
01:14:06.079 --> 01:14:10.399
feel I feel as though there was something sort of

1036
01:14:10.479 --> 01:14:14.640
that she was searching for. I don't think that like

1037
01:14:14.760 --> 01:14:18.760
people have speculated that, you know, maybe she was looking to,

1038
01:14:19.079 --> 01:14:24.439
you know, escape her life. I don't know. I wasn't

1039
01:14:24.479 --> 01:14:28.000
there and I don't know her, but I do think

1040
01:14:28.159 --> 01:14:30.159
there are a lot of people that would like to

1041
01:14:30.199 --> 01:14:34.039
see this case solved. Yeah, and certainly all of us

1042
01:14:34.119 --> 01:14:39.439
that are on the periphery are the least of all concerns, obviously,

1043
01:14:39.880 --> 01:14:43.119
but I really do hope that her family will get

1044
01:14:43.159 --> 01:14:48.840
some answers. I think it's possible, Certainly it's a distinct

1045
01:14:49.239 --> 01:14:53.680
but unlikely possibility that some of what her brother has

1046
01:14:53.720 --> 01:14:57.760
posted on social media is performative. And I know that

1047
01:14:57.800 --> 01:15:01.600
there are cases where maybe I would maybe I would

1048
01:15:01.600 --> 01:15:05.439
say the same thing that other people have. I think

1049
01:15:05.479 --> 01:15:11.000
that it's such a jaded perspective based on the information

1050
01:15:11.399 --> 01:15:15.039
that we have, and I really hope that doesn't color

1051
01:15:15.079 --> 01:15:19.880
people's perception of the case enough that you know they're

1052
01:15:19.920 --> 01:15:23.079
not they're not doing the hard work that needs to

1053
01:15:23.119 --> 01:15:28.640
be done in order to find her. I hope that

1054
01:15:28.680 --> 01:15:35.920
doesn't keep a missing person missing. I did want to

1055
01:15:35.960 --> 01:15:39.560
add because listen, it's been a minute since I've checked

1056
01:15:39.560 --> 01:15:44.119
our po books. We did have some mail. Also, we

1057
01:15:44.199 --> 01:15:48.279
had a package. Oh, so I wanted to just share

1058
01:15:48.640 --> 01:15:52.199
while we're here and I can say hi to everybody

1059
01:15:52.439 --> 01:16:02.479
and acknowledge receipt. Officially, we got your mail. We got it. Okay,

1060
01:16:02.680 --> 01:16:05.760
so we have Actually I think we have a couple

1061
01:16:05.760 --> 01:16:09.239
of Christmas cards. I did receive some messages because people

1062
01:16:10.319 --> 01:16:14.239
did not realize that our Peo box had changed. We

1063
01:16:14.920 --> 01:16:20.479
did have our Peo box forwarded to what degree of

1064
01:16:20.520 --> 01:16:26.439
success remains to be seen. Yeah, we've got a Christmas car.

1065
01:16:28.920 --> 01:16:33.079
This was remailed to us a few weeks back. They

1066
01:16:33.119 --> 01:16:36.960
had some issues with the forwarding from our old Peo box.

1067
01:16:37.359 --> 01:16:38.960
I know, so I'm sorry.

1068
01:16:39.560 --> 01:16:40.239
We tried.

1069
01:16:40.720 --> 01:16:41.720
I know, we tried.

1070
01:16:42.680 --> 01:16:44.239
Okay, they did not make it easy.

1071
01:16:46.079 --> 01:16:51.319
So thank you Sean and John. Your dogs are unbelievably

1072
01:16:51.359 --> 01:16:55.439
adorable in these little cartoon. Yeah, you're gonna want to

1073
01:16:55.479 --> 01:16:57.880
see this. When we're like back in person, you can

1074
01:16:57.960 --> 01:17:01.800
see this, Oh my gord. Okay, and then I'm assuming

1075
01:17:01.960 --> 01:17:07.399
we can share this. We can message Sam to find out.

1076
01:17:08.039 --> 01:17:12.760
But how sweet? Okay, so you can't really see this.

1077
01:17:13.199 --> 01:17:16.680
But on the back he has done something that all

1078
01:17:16.720 --> 01:17:21.640
of my Midwestern relatives have done, I presume for generations.

1079
01:17:22.159 --> 01:17:25.800
He has written a note so that we know where

1080
01:17:25.840 --> 01:17:29.840
he was and when. Oh I love that.

1081
01:17:30.119 --> 01:17:32.239
I love when people do that because my mom would

1082
01:17:32.319 --> 01:17:34.920
do that all the time. It's my favorite thing.

1083
01:17:35.600 --> 01:17:38.520
I know. I'm like, is it even a photo if

1084
01:17:38.560 --> 01:17:42.880
you don't know where it was taken? Sam at Oregon

1085
01:17:43.039 --> 01:17:48.640
ghost Con twenty twenty four. Boo, he is wearing the

1086
01:17:48.840 --> 01:17:52.079
ghost Con hat in the photo.

1087
01:17:52.800 --> 01:17:54.000
That is so cool.

1088
01:17:54.199 --> 01:17:56.439
I want, I know, I know, we'll have to go.

1089
01:17:56.600 --> 01:17:58.720
We have to go, I know, we gotta go, we

1090
01:17:58.800 --> 01:18:02.199
gotta go. Okay. So this we received from our friends

1091
01:18:02.439 --> 01:18:07.960
at Sins and Survivors. They are based in Nevada, Sean

1092
01:18:08.159 --> 01:18:15.520
and John. This says witchy cauldron, okay, okay, and it

1093
01:18:15.600 --> 01:18:19.720
has a sticker that says You've always had the power,

1094
01:18:19.840 --> 01:18:23.840
my dear, you just had to learn it for yourself. Oh,

1095
01:18:24.600 --> 01:18:26.640
which is from the Wizard of Oz.

1096
01:18:26.840 --> 01:18:31.000
I'm gonna say that sounds pretty familiar. Yeah, a couple

1097
01:18:31.000 --> 01:18:35.560
of theater kids over here. Okay, we just made our

1098
01:18:35.600 --> 01:18:37.319
own musical on a Patreon bonus.

1099
01:18:37.359 --> 01:18:44.239
Earlier we did okay. Oh oh the Celtic Cross A

1100
01:18:44.319 --> 01:18:47.960
guide to using your Tarot class.

1101
01:18:48.520 --> 01:18:54.960
Oh cool, I love those things. We got to use it. Yeah, oh, hey,

1102
01:18:54.960 --> 01:18:57.640
we gotta use this really nice gift someone got for us.

1103
01:18:58.239 --> 01:19:03.000
This is so soft. Oh, it's it's silky on one side.

1104
01:19:03.079 --> 01:19:05.479
But then like buzzy on the other.

1105
01:19:06.119 --> 01:19:08.680
Like velvet like velish.

1106
01:19:09.079 --> 01:19:10.880
Ooh, that's so cool.

1107
01:19:13.279 --> 01:19:15.800
Nice. I don't Yeah, we don't have a lot of experiences.

1108
01:19:15.800 --> 01:19:18.159
Well I don't with like spreads, so.

1109
01:19:19.000 --> 01:19:22.279
I mean I use them, but I've never had like

1110
01:19:22.359 --> 01:19:27.520
the cloth historically. Oh. I'm so excited about this. You

1111
01:19:27.600 --> 01:19:30.159
know how I feel about the Celtic Cross.

1112
01:19:30.479 --> 01:19:33.840
And it's like easier when there's like a guide obviously, like.

1113
01:19:35.039 --> 01:19:39.079
Oh my goodness, this is like each of the card,

1114
01:19:39.399 --> 01:19:45.399
like the placeholders, they're embroidered. It's not just like oh cool,

1115
01:19:46.600 --> 01:19:49.640
oh cool, cool cool. So it's not just like laser

1116
01:19:49.760 --> 01:19:55.479
printed or yeah, oh my gosh, that's a fancy so fancy. God.

1117
01:19:56.000 --> 01:19:58.039
Now we gotta send them a gift. I don't.

1118
01:19:58.319 --> 01:19:59.920
We don't deserve you.

1119
01:20:00.000 --> 01:20:01.560
We should do a reading for them with it.

1120
01:20:01.800 --> 01:20:03.640
We totally should.

1121
01:20:04.159 --> 01:20:06.079
Yeah, is there any other mail?

1122
01:20:07.560 --> 01:20:07.920
That?

1123
01:20:07.920 --> 01:20:11.039
That was all we have for now? What you guys

1124
01:20:11.199 --> 01:20:12.079
send us more mail?

1125
01:20:12.159 --> 01:20:13.760
Not to say.

1126
01:20:15.159 --> 01:20:19.640
That was plenty this. I am so excited about me too.

1127
01:20:20.119 --> 01:20:21.119
Should we do our thing?

1128
01:20:21.680 --> 01:20:26.840
Yeah, let's do it before this dog losess me Cal's

1129
01:20:26.880 --> 01:20:29.239
may Who did you just your hand in front of

1130
01:20:29.760 --> 01:20:31.760
did Chris just put his hand in front of the camera?

1131
01:20:32.920 --> 01:20:34.760
No he didn't.

1132
01:20:35.520 --> 01:20:42.119
No, dude, I'm freaking out. Okay, did you see that? No,

1133
01:20:42.600 --> 01:20:43.439
what happened?

1134
01:20:44.079 --> 01:20:47.279
I don't have good service like you've You're just like

1135
01:20:47.399 --> 01:20:50.079
kind of blurry. You've been like in and out and

1136
01:20:50.119 --> 01:20:52.359
like glitchy. And that's fine. I know I don't have

1137
01:20:52.399 --> 01:20:55.560
good service. But just now, it literally looked like someone

1138
01:20:55.720 --> 01:20:57.359
just like put their hand in front of the camera

1139
01:20:57.439 --> 01:20:59.600
like this is a joke. So I thought Chris just

1140
01:20:59.680 --> 01:21:04.359
walked and like did this No, So I don't know

1141
01:21:04.399 --> 01:21:06.840
if it was just like if it glitched and like

1142
01:21:07.319 --> 01:21:11.199
zoomed in on like well, okay.

1143
01:21:11.680 --> 01:21:14.520
What's funny about this is I love that both of

1144
01:21:14.640 --> 01:21:20.680
us were just like Chris, yeah, I was like, I

1145
01:21:21.560 --> 01:21:25.159
fully okay. So here's the thing. What's ironic about this

1146
01:21:25.399 --> 01:21:28.640
is that the pod Lab door has always been this

1147
01:21:28.800 --> 01:21:35.439
like like horror movie creaky and like stiff, like the

1148
01:21:35.520 --> 01:21:40.119
door that everybody's like yanking on trying to escape. He

1149
01:21:40.279 --> 01:21:44.319
fixed it, Cassie, Oh wow, that shit ain't the same.

1150
01:21:46.520 --> 01:21:51.079
It opens and closes silently, which I conveniently forgot when

1151
01:21:51.159 --> 01:21:55.079
I thought I heard I thought I heard it opening

1152
01:21:55.239 --> 01:22:01.920
and closing like it used to. Oh weird, that bitch

1153
01:22:01.920 --> 01:22:04.680
is silent now, So I don't know what the fuck

1154
01:22:04.800 --> 01:22:05.600
happened earlier.

1155
01:22:06.800 --> 01:22:09.159
Well, I feel like what I was seeing was just

1156
01:22:09.199 --> 01:22:11.800
like your camera glitching out, and I don't know how

1157
01:22:11.840 --> 01:22:12.119
to do it.

1158
01:22:12.119 --> 01:22:12.479
I don't know.

1159
01:22:12.479 --> 01:22:14.960
I don't know if it's going to show it because

1160
01:22:15.000 --> 01:22:18.399
on your like it's gonna when it's recording, it's gonna

1161
01:22:18.399 --> 01:22:24.279
be smooth. Yeah, it was just really it literally just

1162
01:22:24.399 --> 01:22:28.600
like looked like this, but like blurry and glitchy.

1163
01:22:29.960 --> 01:22:31.119
Oh my god, I hate that.

1164
01:22:32.079 --> 01:22:34.840
And it hasn't done anything like like it's been you

1165
01:22:34.920 --> 01:22:36.920
and your face will kind of glitch out and stuff,

1166
01:22:36.920 --> 01:22:41.239
but it hadn't done this full screen like it looked

1167
01:22:41.279 --> 01:22:43.880
like a blue hand. That was so weird.

1168
01:22:44.159 --> 01:22:47.880
Blue hand. Yeah, like I thought it was like like

1169
01:22:47.920 --> 01:22:50.680
I'm being hide fucking avatar.

1170
01:22:51.560 --> 01:22:51.720
Oh.

1171
01:22:51.760 --> 01:22:53.680
I was like I thought it was like your lighting,

1172
01:22:53.720 --> 01:22:55.439
but that wouldn't really make sense.

1173
01:22:56.880 --> 01:22:58.199
The blue guys on this.

1174
01:22:59.640 --> 01:23:03.760
Okay, I'm gonna start camping. I'm gonna start video cameraing

1175
01:23:03.920 --> 01:23:04.560
the screen.

1176
01:23:05.560 --> 01:23:06.199
Seriously.

1177
01:23:07.119 --> 01:23:11.520
Wow, that was insanely creepy. I'm gonna be thinking about

1178
01:23:11.520 --> 01:23:16.159
that now for a really long time. Yeah, I gotta

1179
01:23:16.199 --> 01:23:18.880
watch the video back then because I am curious, Like, yeah,

1180
01:23:19.119 --> 01:23:20.159
pick anything, up.

1181
01:23:20.640 --> 01:23:28.000
Ah okay, I feel like we have not had anything really.

1182
01:23:28.119 --> 01:23:30.720
All that weird happened in this apartment.

1183
01:23:31.640 --> 01:23:36.079
It's you're doing You're doing what you shouldn't do, renovating.

1184
01:23:37.920 --> 01:23:38.920
You renovated.

1185
01:23:39.399 --> 01:23:46.079
Oh no, I did just fix the door. Renovation, just

1186
01:23:46.159 --> 01:23:48.119
the hinges, just the hinges.

1187
01:23:49.359 --> 01:23:52.600
The ghost said, not that there. They be renovating weird.

1188
01:23:52.680 --> 01:23:54.720
But there wasn't a ghost here before.

1189
01:23:55.920 --> 01:24:01.840
We're getting rowdy. It's renovation season. I see a hammer.

1190
01:24:02.000 --> 01:24:09.079
Let's go. Oh my god, no.

1191
01:24:10.680 --> 01:24:15.000
Do a nice do a nice cleansing of your of

1192
01:24:15.039 --> 01:24:15.920
the office.

1193
01:24:16.800 --> 01:24:18.159
That's so uncomfortable.

1194
01:24:19.640 --> 01:24:23.319
Ah, yesdayday.

1195
01:24:24.720 --> 01:24:28.479
We'll see you next Tuesday, unless a big giant blue

1196
01:24:28.520 --> 01:24:31.439
hand just like covers up my face forever.

1197
01:24:32.680 --> 01:24:36.479
Gosh, please be safe. We do want to see you

1198
01:24:36.520 --> 01:24:39.720
next Tuesday. So if you go into the woods, be safe.

1199
01:24:39.800 --> 01:24:42.880
If you need to go on a spiritual journey, just

1200
01:24:42.920 --> 01:24:45.039
please do it safely and with people.

1201
01:24:45.319 --> 01:24:48.479
And yeah, maybe pack some clothes just.

1202
01:24:48.119 --> 01:24:49.199
Just in case you get lost.

1203
01:24:49.520 --> 01:24:50.239
That would be good.

1204
01:24:50.880 --> 01:24:53.039
But also there's nothing wrong with freeball, and if that's

1205
01:24:53.079 --> 01:24:55.279
what you want to do too, that's for sure.

1206
01:24:57.000 --> 01:24:59.880
Come to terror with a switch.

1207
01:25:00.239 --> 01:25:02.239
Oh she's such a piggy.

1208
01:25:02.520 --> 01:25:05.720
Is this a little piggie. Oh my god, she's so cute.

1209
01:25:05.760 --> 01:25:10.279
No smash your face. I know she's got a really

1210
01:25:10.319 --> 01:25:14.880
smushable face, so smushable. Okay, maybe I'll throw a food norval. Okay,

1211
01:25:15.079 --> 01:25:18.359
we can finish.

1212
01:25:18.760 --> 01:25:22.960
Thanks for listening. Visit sinspod dot co, slash subscribe for

1213
01:25:23.039 --> 01:25:27.239
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1214
01:25:27.439 --> 01:25:31.119
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01:25:31.199 --> 01:25:34.840
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1216
01:25:34.920 --> 01:25:37.680
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1217
01:25:37.800 --> 01:25:41.920
You can contact us at Questions at sinsnsurvivors dot com.

1218
01:25:42.079 --> 01:25:44.359
If you are someone you know as affected by domestic

1219
01:25:44.439 --> 01:25:47.720
violence or needs support, please reach out to local resources

1220
01:25:47.800 --> 01:25:50.720
or the National Domestic Violence Hotline. A list of resources

1221
01:25:50.760 --> 01:25:53.920
is available on our website, Sins and Survivors dot com.

1222
01:25:54.359 --> 01:25:57.800
Sins and Survivors, a Las Vegas true crime podcast, is research,

1223
01:25:57.840 --> 01:26:01.319
written and produced by your hosts Shannan John. The information

1224
01:26:01.399 --> 01:26:03.920
shared in this podcast is accurate at the time of recording.

1225
01:26:04.399 --> 01:26:07.359
If you have questions, concerns, or corrections, please email us.

1226
01:26:07.479 --> 01:26:09.880
Links to source material for this episode can be found

1227
01:26:09.920 --> 01:26:13.239
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1228
01:26:13.720 --> 01:26:16.720
The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely

1229
01:26:16.800 --> 01:26:21.119
those of the podcast creators, hosts, and their guests. All

1230
01:26:21.119 --> 01:26:25.039
individuals are innocent until proven guilty. This content does not

1231
01:26:25.199 --> 01:26:29.239
constitute legal advice. Listeners are encouraged to consult with legal

1232
01:26:29.279 --> 01:26:30.439
professionals for guidance.