DVA Month Bonus - PNW Haunts and Homicides Presents - The Highway of Tears Part 1

0:00 To listen ad free, visit sinspod dot com slash subscribe starting at two ninety nine a month. You'll also get access to our exclusive bonus content episodes when you join through Patreon or Apple subscriptions. Thanks for supporting the show. Welcome to the third of our What Happens Here, Happens Everywhere Domestic Violence Awareness Month bonus episodes. I'm Sean and with Me as always is the one and Only John. I am the only John in the room. This week we have a presentation from PNW Hanson Homicides, hosted by the awesome and spooky Caitlin and Cassie. They generally focus on paranormal related true crime stories in the Pacific Northwest, but this one is a bit different. We ask Caitlin and Cassie if we could share this episode with all of you because here in the US, October fourteenth is observed as Indigenous People's Day.

0:50 For this episode, Caitlin and Cassie discussed the Highway of Tears, a highway in British Columbia where many women, mostly Indigenous, have disappeared or been found murdered. We wanted to share this episode with all of you because Indigenous women experience violence at an alarming rate. More than four and five Indigenous women living in America have experienced violence, and the crisis of deaths and disappearances along Highway sixteen prompted the Canadian government to conduct an official inquiry. When you're done, head over to PNW Hauntsonhomicides dot com and check out their other episodes, subscribe and make sure to follow them on all the socials. And now a special presentation of PNW Haunts and Homicides.

2:07 Hi Cassie, Hi, Caitlin, Hi, creepy people. Hi, Hello, this is p and W Hants and Homicides again. Yeah, always always, We're always going to be here forever and ever until you die. I mean for some of you, we might be here after you die. Oh, I mean I hate to go. That is sad. Oh my god. I don't want any of our people to ever die. Don't ever pass away. Okay, Can you guys do us a favor and live forever? Yeah? Please, and thank you, And also tell like a hundred of your closest friends to come and listen, or like maybe a million yeah, like a cool mill. Yeah, okay, a cool mill. Ah yay, Okay. Well that's enough laughing. Yeah, not a lot of lefter on this one. See, I did my best. Okay, I found another case to preempt this one, like just trying to drag my feet a little bit. And here we are. Nonetheless we're here. Okay, you guys.

3:24 I was trying so hard to like not get us to record this today, and she was like, no, we have to do it. Yeah, okay, rip that band aid off. Fine, Okay, here we go today we travel up north to British Columbia. It's the westernmost province of Canada. I'm not gonna pull any punches here, you guys. We're talking about a specific stretch of highway runs between Prince George aka the Gateway to the North and Prince Rupert. They're not actual princes is We're not talking about castles. It's you know, two separate areas. So just clarifying a lot of princes up there.

4:11 What's going on? I know, if you didn't happen to major in Canadian geography, which would be a very obscure. Yeah, program I think or this just doesn't sound familiar. We're going to be talking about the Highway of Tears because I keep my damn promises, Yeah you do. This is where a mind blowing number of murders have taken place, many have remained unsolved for decades. Obviously, we briefly touched on this and our coverage of Bobby Jack Fowler. Yeah, Bobby Jack shit sick. Yeah, but you know, we wouldn't dare leave it at that. It would be horrific. Like, this is definitely a case in its own right. If you know anything about this case, and I'm sure many of you do, you know it's a tragedy of massive proportions.

5:13 We're going to get into a bit of the background and touch very briefly on some of the historical context of this case. I'll start with some of the information taken directly from the Highway of Tears documentary, which I highly recommend. The documentary is narrated by the guy from Firefly, Nathan Fillion. I've never seen it. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. I'm not a big sci fi person, but I heard it was. Really good and then ended, So I was like, do I want to piss myself off? Na, No, today I probably wouldn't. But I cannot tell you enough first of all, how much I love his voice, though, but Also, even if sci fi isn't your flavor, you gotta love a celebrity that lends said voice to such important storytelling, for sure. So we heart you, Nathan Philia.

6:12 Good guy, good guy, I mean, I hope gosh right, and we're just sitting here like praising him. Yeah. Actually, yeah, that's about all of the feel good that I got for you today. So without much further ado, here we do. In twenty thirteen, Human Rights Watch released a report stating that the Royal Canadian Mounted Police in Northern British Columbia failed to protect Indigenous women. I'd argue that's probably a bit of an understatement, and unfortunately it's a bit of a pattern as well. Indigenous women are three point five times more likely to experience violence than non indigenous women. Wow, that's a big difference, I feel like absolutely, And I know we've talked about like how disproportionate that is in other cases in the past, So I think probably if you know, you listen to us regularly, it's something that you might have at least a cursory familiarity with. Five hundred eighty two Indigenous women have been reported missing and murdered across Canada, and that's a figure that's taken directly from the documentary, So that number has only gone up.

7:44 Considering the fact that Indigenous women make up about four percent of the female Canadian population, this is a pretty staggering number, and I have bad news on that front. Unfortunately, according to more recent information, that number has likely more than doubled. What more than doubled? M hm? Oh my god? Where are they going? Not anywhere? Good? What the fuck? Piling right on? Many advocates and experts believe this number is inaccurate, being far too low and conservative to match the lived experience of those within these communities. Either way, that accounts for less than thirty five years of Canada's overall history.

8:39 So less than thirty five years, hm, wow, Like, how much more is it really? And how many are they? Just? Like, eh, they just ran away, they just left pretty much. I mean, it's the type of thing where it's hard to even get an accurate statistic, which I think, you know, Like I say, the advocates and experts in this area are saying, there's probably a lot of them that don't even get reported missing, and there's a lot of reasons why those numbers are probably inaccurate and not in the good way. So I think it's safe to say that Indigenous women are significantly over represented among missing and murdered women. Unfortunately, we've seen in other cases that this is true in the US as well. This is not an isolated issue.

9:32 It's not just a problem in one country or one specific part of the world. I know we like our problems to be far away, but I can't give you that in this case. Now, you might recall that we've discussed the forced removal of children from their homes in both Canada and the US before. Yeah, sometimes this was done so that Native children could be adopted out to white families, but there's but also the problematic history of residential schools, where Indigenous children had both their family and cultural ties all but erased in addition to facing horrific abuse in many cases. You can refer back to the Joseph Chandro case, where we do discuss the baby scoop a bit more. But today we're going to focus on the specific aspects of violence against Indigenous women. The underreported and uninvestigated murders and disappearances of First Nation women in the area is honestly just the latest iteration in a pattern of abuse against Indigenous people by those that have colonized them. We have an awareness of a variety of these fraught topics and understand the horrific impact it has had on the population. As a result, we can't over look these things as it relates to the complex issues

11:03 facing the Indigenous population in terms of their history, the world they inhabit today, and the impact it has on their future. But we'll be focusing on specific aspects that won't offer a detailed look at the residential schools and forced adoptions today. I really just want to specifically talk about the violence that has been perpetrated in a very targeted way against women. If parts of this story don't fit into the true crime related mold in your mind, I would beg you to bear with us because this is a story that needs to be told. So this feels like a pretty good place to talk about some terminology. Now, the documentary is heavy with usage of the term aboriginal in the narration. I think oftentimes we look for one size fits all terminology, but I wanted to avoid that tech Native is a bit of a loaded term, and aboriginal isn't really the ideal term in every case either not Everyone feels the same about each of these terms, and I'm not going to dive deep into an explanation with either term, and that's just for the sake of brevity.

12:22 I think this can be a great area to begin an exploration of our own and I'm going to include an extensive list of resources that I explored for terminology and details of the cases in the show notes. But as I said, even though it's a frequently used term in the documentary, which is perhaps somewhat dated at this point, upon reflection, I have polled resources in order to approach our terminology in the most culturally sensitive and conscientious way possible. Yeah, I hope to bear witness to these stories with the utmost respect. It's really hard to know, Like there's so many different things out there, and you can google one thing, and then one article will say one thing, and then someone will say something else, and there I try to look for them from like the actual people who it's affecting, right.

13:16 But they I feel like all of them say something different. Yeah. I think that one of the things that really struck me is that feeling that we sort of look for these catch all terms because we want to do the right thing, but then we don't go a step further and really look at these things from more than one perspective. And so there are some terms that you know, for a lot of more recent years have been kind of the popularized terms that now people have pointed out, you know, maybe that's not the best. So it's a tough thing to identify, you know, a singular term that maybe pleases everybody.

14:01 But I do think and I guess, you know, I'll talk about it a little bit here. I think there are some some things that all lay out why I'm choosing to do it this way and hopefully, you know, going about approaching this in a way that, like I said, is you know, respectful in you know, the to the best of my ability. Yeah, so we can do is do our best to try to say the right thing, and if we don't. Yeah, and yeah, I will be utilizing the term indigenous for the most part in this case, because we will discuss individual people and larger communities where tribal association may not always be clear cut. Part of that has to do with the nature of how available some you know, different records are. I will say that largely I think the people that we are are going to discuss in connection with this case, would identify as first nation. While it was tempted to really dig in on this front and disregard simplicity or brevity altogether, I think these women and girls have important stories that need to be shared, and that's really my focus. Their names, families, and unique cultural backgrounds are not only important to who they were as people, but as part of sharing their memory where that information is readily available and from what I'm able

15:36 to gather, it seems like that's clear cut. I'll do my best to be more specific, because not only is that widely accepted as the most appropriate approach, but it feels like the right thing to do if I can. If you know someone's name, you don't just say hey, you right, yeah. But I'm also not going to call you Patricia if your real friends call you Patty. So I just want to be sensitive to the fact that words matter, and you know, the the labels and the connections that we make to you know, anyone that we talk about, we want to be respectful in that. So hopefully we're all kind of clear on that. Now for the topical issue today, I think you did a really good job explaining that. Okay, yeah, all right, there's really nothing else we need to discuss as kind of a precursor, so stoling only makes ripping this band aid off that much harder. Dozens of women have been reported missing or murdered along the Highway sixteen corridor, known as the Highway of Tears. There are countless other disappearances, and we'll be trying to get to as many of them as possible, especially because many remain unsolved. But before we dive into the disappearances, I feel it's important to talk about one

17:09 thing in particular that has had a devastating impact on the female population in Indigenous communities. We've talked about other social issues, but this one hits hard at the center of Indigenous womanhood and motherhood. Specifically, sterilization has been imposed on Indigenous women in Canada, not once or twice or in isolated areas. Sexual sterilization legislation was passed in Alberta and was active between nineteen twenty eight and nineteen seventy two, and in British Columbia from nineteen thirty three to nineteen seventy three. Wow decades.

17:57 I just don't get that it does not compute in the brain. No, but this legislation was intended to target Indigenous women. Coerced sterilization of Indigenous women took place both within and outside existing legislation and in federally operated hospitals. It's an ugly and shameful part of history, especially because it was government sanctioned. The practice has allegedly continued into the twenty first century. Now this is where we explain that allegedly is one of my least favorite terms, but for legal reasons, you'll find it pops up from time to time. Anyway, approximately one hundred Indigenous women have shared stories being pressured to consent to sterilization. This took place from between the nineteen seventies and all the way up to twenty eighteen.

18:58 Oh my god, really yes, and occurred oftentimes while these women were in an extremely vulnerable state, either during their pregnancy or childbirth. Oh my god, Let that sink in for a moment. This has occurred in all of our lifetimes. I am we sure as shit know that our government here in the States has done it as well, and quite frankly still doing it today with certain populations. I just don't understand why I'm literally shaking with rage, but we're going to fight to channel it into something productive and stay focused. I don't want children, but I want to burn this whole goddamn planet to the ground to protect women's rights when it comes to freedom of choice in relation to fertility and family planning, regardless of what that choice is for you, your partner, your loved ones, because it should be your choice. Okay, well, deactivate caps lock.

20:12 Now getting back to the business of dozens of missing women along Highway sixteen. Right about now is when you're probably realizing that, based on sheer volume, we simply couldn't possibly cover all of the individual cases adequately. And you're right. This is about the time that I started ugly crying in my research, and then again when in the editing phase. I've been told the expectation upon meeting me would be that I'm one of those delicate, pretty criers. I can't get out a real sneeze for the life of me. But I'm a full blown, snotty mess in the crying department.

20:53 And this, much like my girl Miley, came in like a wrecking ball. It's I think that's going to be the last I think you can belt that out a little bit more. Come on, I mean, in all seriousness, it utterly fucked me up. I'm red and puffey emotionally, and also around the eyes something weird was happening where water was seeping out of them. There are simply too many active missing persons and murder cases associated with the Highway of Tears to present it all here with the level of respect that I'd like to. I already have plans in the works to cover some additional cases in this area. So just bear with me, because unfortunately, particularly when the investigative work is this thin, to put it mildly, there's not much for us to talk about in relation to each victim, and I'm only going to cover what I can crush. We can raise awareness about some of the slimmer cases by talking about this, though, So that's my aim, and I'm going to see what more I can dig for. I hope that one day we can go deeper on more as there are breaks in the cases.

22:18 So what we're going to do is share as many resources as possible to try to spread the word and keep these cases alive. We're going to talk about some of the cases that were specifically connected according to official record and classification, and then some of those that weren't, at least in an official capacity, whatever that means. Because did you really think I'd only talk about the ones that are officially classified as Highway of Tears cases. Don't be doffed, darling. Hell no, I'm terrified that without being linked to a massive story like this, that those cases have less and less hope as time passes of being solved.

23:02 I'll preface this next section by saying, I realize we're about to discuss one of the missing that came much later in the timeline and is not indigenous, but we're trying to create some context here, so please just trust me. I trust you, okay, with my life. Nicole Horror was twenty five years old in June of two thousand and two. On the twenty first, she disappeared when hitchhiking. She is officially linked to the Highway of Tears. Her parents learned how different and fraught the experience of others who'd lost loved ones on the corridor had unfortunately been.

23:46 Her father, Jack commented how embarrassing and upsetting that was. It was diametrically opposed to how he and his wife Betty had been treated by the RCMP. That's the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. Ooh yeah, so OURCMP for short from here forward, you're not going to call them mountiefs. No. Oh, I can't imagine it. I don't know. When Nicole went missing, the search for her was one of the largest in Northern BC, with a reported three hundred searchers. At that time. Six other girls had already disappeared. In some of their cases, several years had passed with lackluster efforts on the part of law enforcement, scant coverage by the media, and little in the way of financial and other practical support for those searches and investigations. In stark contrast, the investigators collected hundreds of hours of surveillance camera footage from local businesses along the highway. Even after the official search was downgraded, the family continued for weeks thanks to their support system that was able to pitch in financially. Nicole Horror also had the benefit of some minor celebrity attention. Her prom date had been Olympic speed skater Steven elm Oh wow. Yeah.

25:14 He also had a hand in fundraising her father's employer, the Hudson's Bay company even put up a twenty five thousand dollars reward. Oh yeah, they received support from locals in so many forms, groceries, photo copying, posters. The Rotary Club of Red Deer East offered a second reward of five thousand dollars. Wow. Yeah, Nicole's company had granted everyone time off their work. She worked as It's actually a really cool job. She worked for a company where they would go all through like these rural areas and they would plant trees. Oh she planted That was her job, and she was incredible at it. Oh my god, where do I get that job? I know? Yeah, So her company actually gave everybody like multiple days off work so that they could go and help the search. That is so awesome. Yeah. In addition to receiving more support from law enforcement and a variety of community sources, the reporting of Nicole was colored very differently. Authorities spoke about her differently, going to some effort to distance her from the other highway of tears disappearances. It was clear to Nichole's family that she was being treated as a worthy victim, and they were disgusted to find that the same could not

26:47 be said of the other women so the family made a concerted effort to bring attention to those other cases, and they really resented how the other families were treated. Through their efforts, many of the girls made their debut in major publications. So Nichole's family basically got pissed that they had never heard of some of these other missing persons cases as they should. Yeah, and they made a point of bringing them up in interviews with the media, and that is a big part of why some of them ever made it into the major publications.

27:31 Wow, this family is amazing going through what they're going through and still worried about other people. Yeah, they were able to donate excess funds that were raised for Nicole to crime stoppers and local search and rescue. There are other families that have done their damnedest despite the odds and obstacles. And I told you that there's no way we could cover everyone. But we're going to get to a few of the rest, because you bet your sweet ass. We are not just going to talk about Nicole. She sounds like an incredible person. But you might even be thinking, Wow, there was a huge ground swall of support in Nicole's case, and I've been led to believe she was just one of the many that went missing. Is this when they maybe start a task force? No? No, And this is where the timeline really gets critical, because we have to briefly consider one other case that unexpectedly drew resources away from the Highway of Tears.

28:39 H So they know that there's this like huge problem on this one highway, but there's not a task force for it. No, not yet. Okay, Okay, Yeah, that's fine, Right, you're okay, as long as we're all on the same page. Not even a low budget one, not even a little one moving in a totally different direction. Some of you may be anticipating that will cover Robert Picton as part of this case. Who I'm kidding, Who I've heard? Yeah, and certainly in the documentary that was one of my major resources.

29:21 They did cover him. But all you're going to get from me on But all you're going to get on that from me today is the view from about ten thousand feet, partially because of my disdain for that sack of shit that identifies as both a man and a serial killer, but also partially because we're really trying to focus on the Highway of Tiers specifically and it's truthfully related on the one hand, and on the other hand, a whole ass separate shit sandwich garnished with rumor of possible human meat consumption.

30:04 That is so gross, Like if you guys don't know about that case, Yeah, it's fucking disgusting. And to be honest, that's where the line is for me. Cannibalism is just usually more than I can handle, which I feel like is the appropriate response. Yeah. Robert Picton's pig farm in Port Coquitlam, a suburb of Vancouver, is where numerous murders went all but unnoticed or perhaps more accurately, ignored by authorities, even when victims were reported missing. The DNA of thirty three different women was eventually found on his farm. Even though he was initially only charged with two counts of first degree murder. The investigation and trial cost Canadian more than one hundred million dollars. Holy shit, mm hmm, And it feels like a bit of bad karma that now authorities have to explain that to their citizens. Wow.

31:15 Seems like if all you want to do is drill down to the dollars and cents, it would have made a hell of a lot more sense to investigate before it gets to that point. I don't know, maybe catch a serial killer and nip it in the bud. What do I know? Right? We could try blaming it on the fact that rural areas make it easy to hide evidence of a crime, just like it did on Highway sixteen. But I think we all know that is the may Did you know DP says that too all the time? Yes, because I binge listen to them as if we didn't love them enough.

31:58 Back to our case. Delphine Anne Camelia Nicole. Oh, such a pretty name. So pretty. She was born February nineteen seventy five in the same hospital as another young girl in the community named Ramona. Don't worry, we're going to talk about her too. Delphine loved animals, which is always a plus and a rural upbringing. Yeah, but she especially loved horses, because what girl doesn't, duh. She was quite a bit younger than her siblings. Her sister really thought of her as her baby too. Her parents divorced when she was young, and then just a few short years later, her father died in nineteen eighty six. She was pretty young.

32:51 Delphine moved in with her mother Judy and Judy's new husband. She wasn't happy in this new home and living situation. It led to her staying away from home as much as possible, which honestly most teenagers do to some degree anyway, Yeah, I digress. Her juvenile criminal record began during this period. When Delphine went missing, she had last been seen hitchhiking back towards home. Her mother was very ill, and her friends insisted her intent was to return home. They adamantly disagreed with the assertion that she might have run away from home. Of course, the fact that she had a history of bad behavior as a juvenile, the authorities were all too comfortable dismissing her disappearance as a runaway. She'd come back. I hate that. Remember what I said about thirteen.

33:46 She went missing on June thirteenth, Wow of nineteen ninety Oh my gosh, all of these June dates, and then thirteenth was a big one in the Brophy case too. That was just what five days ago. Yeah, her disappearance is linked to the highway of tears by authorities in a twist of fate that's almost too cruel to come to grips with her cousin Cecilia and Nicole was murdered a few years later. Only three of the ten from this region of the highway victims were actually publicly confirmed as having been hitchhiking. Nationally, more than ninety percent of kids are found within a week. So this is what's so frustrating is with these types of numbers, it's like only a third of these people were actually confirmed as having been doing this, you know, I mean, now hindsight from twenty twenty two, hitchhiking is a very risky behavior.

34:57 A lot of them were not even if they were, like, maybe we should, I don't know. Maybe still try looking for them. Yeah, definitely try looking for them. I mean, risky behavior doesn't mean you deserve to die. Right, And the one that really sticks with me is, you know they keep saying about a lot of these girls, Oh they'll come back, and then you look at it. Nationally, more than ninety percent of kids are found within a week. Well sure if they ran away, Yeah, but maybe don't wait the full week to start looking for them. If you start looking for them, because aren't the statistics if they were kidnapped are like far s the first twenty four hours? Yeah, and if you have family and friends who know these people, saying like, no, what, she didn't run away? You need to fucking listen. Yeah, you don't know them. The cops insisted there were no signs of foul play, and that, like many other runaways, she had likely fled to a city like Vancouver in the hopes of forging a new life on her own. They insisted many runaways had done just so. Though Delphine's family and friends tried looking for her in Vancouver, they were unsuccessful. Cecilia, born in nineteen seventy one, just a handful of years before her cousin Delphine, boarded a bus in nineteen eighty nine in Smithers on her way to Vancouver with a

36:30 friend to visit her mother. The woman who had actually raised her in Smithers got a call from her saying she'd return in a couple of weeks, but it's unknown whether she actually arrived in Vancouver. We just don't know. There was one family member that claimed to see her there. The two cousins' disappearances happened so close together that there was actually an organization that had recently taken it upon themselves to help some of these families with a search for their missing loved ones, and they took both of them extremely seriously, because how often does lightning strike twice like that? I just yeah, fuck's sake, they're children. Yeah, Though, unlike her cousin, her disappearance and murder would not be attributed to the list of Highway of Tears victims, So only one of the two cousins was officially identified as And I keep touching on that with each of these you know, girls, and with each one of the women.

37:38 And I'm going to explain why it's important, Okay, just an aside, if you will. Even so, it would be July of nineteen ninety three before a postal worker unexpectedly found a bloody shoe. I guess there's no way that could be expected, But a thorough search of the area was done. In fact, trained cadaver dogs were flown in from Portland, not by the RCMP, by the organization trying to help these families. Oh wow is my understanding. Wow classy. However, in the convening time since the initial report, a construction crew had begun work digging in the area to widen the road. Okay, couldn't wait for the cadaver dogs. They literally were just like, oh, there might be a body hair, It's fine. The excavation process likely would have recovered any remains, but they brought in the dogs anyway, which is so frustrating for just wait. Yeah, Like, Ultimately, this effort didn't pay off by moving the case forward, at least directly, but it does seem like it may have helped to generate leads. Then a tip from a psychic even came in,

39:08 but unfortunately that didn't pay off, as is oftentimes the case. There was, however, a woman who produced a tip after speaking with a gas station employee who saw Delphine and her friends just before they parted ways on the night of her disappearance. Though she couldn't remember the name of that employee who provided the account, she did remember from her notes that this individual stated Delphine had gotten into a red sports car. Hmmm, jack fucking pot. It doesn't seem like a lot, but they had nothing, so now they have nothing and a red car. Yeah, possibly something. Yeah.

39:56 Her mother was asked if there was anyone that she could think of that Delphine would have taken a ride from that she new drove a red car Apparently they get a name at that point, and it's a lead they were pursuing and provided to the police. So again, this is like a third party organization that is investigating this wow, and they're taking the information to the police because the families have had so little success getting anything done jeez. Though the name doesn't appear to have ever been released, nor to have paid off by the recovery of her body or the bringing of her killer to justice at least yet, which is hardly a satisfying way for the story to end for their families, though hopefully for all of you this won't be an unsatisfactory place to leave it for now until next time, as we continue the highway of time years, it's so heavy, it's going to get heavier. Yeah, okay, don't hate me. We love you.

41:11 We love you for doing all of the dirty work for us. You know what I mean. I promise you that I'm going to give you some glimpses into the only bright spots that are accessible in the case. Yeah, because there is some really, I mean, we talked about Nicolehor's family and the things that they were doing to try to bring awareness to the other cases. There are some other good things and connections that are made and it's not enough, but it's something, Yeah, and I want to focus on that and you know, encourage those little nuggets to grow. Well, it's so amazing, like what a community can do when you're all like working to other. Yeah.

42:01 And it's so great that the family shared that. Yeah, the other victims. Yeah, I think they understood that. And you know, they they really talked about in interviews, both in the documentary and other sources that I saw and in the book that I read. They really understood and acknowledged very openly what it meant in this situation to be able to use their privilege to help other people. And while it felt terrible that they you know that that was the case, and then that's the reality, and they took it and they used it. And I think, unfortunately, if that's the best we can do, we have to at least do that. Yeah.

42:59 Imagine like going through that and then knowing how it would feel when you didn't have that support. It's one of the things that her sister and both of her parents talked about quite a bit. Yeah, Okay, Taro, Yeah, we are looking for a tarot card that will help us take some insight into this part one of Highway of Tears. M. Okay, I'm gonna I think I'm gonna do one more shuffle. Okay, then we'll let Caitlin decide what she wants to do. You know, you were saying, what if we get a card and it's someone like crying? I was just thinking, what if it's a card and there's a horse on it, the Royal Mounted Candy Police. M. Now watch we'll get something totally Yeah, okay that we've.

44:12 Gotten this one so many times. There's a bunch of them. Oh and I turned right to cups. Oh my gosh. Sorry, there's a bunch of water droplets on it that literally look like tear drops. But that's crazy. We oh my, asked for tear drops and we literally sort of gotten them. Wow. We didn't even say what it was. For the people not watching, I apologize. We're getting there. Ace of cups and reverse. Yeah, it's got an upside down heart too. Like that makes me sad, I know. Okay, So for Ace of Cups, we have new love, beginning, a creative activity joy. The reversed ACE can indicate a delay in starting a relationship. It can also mean a romance that seemed promising doesn't develop or turn out as you'd hoped. This may not be the right time to start something new, or to get into a stranger's car. In a reading about money, the reverse ace suggests you may have to wait a while to profit from a new venture. Oh, this was a slow going case. Or it can mean you won't make as much as you'd expected. Oh, that crushes me. For every dollar that the other families tried to raise, like the efforts just flooded in. The fundraising was like quadruple yeah

45:45 for Nicole. Yeah, I mean the other families put together all of these different fundraising events and they just couldn't. I mean, oh, it's just crushing. If the reading is about your work, you may encounter delays in landing your dream job. For creative people, this ace can represent a dry spell when you feel stifled or uninspired. It's funny because this talks about, you know, creativity, and if it's about your work, encountering delays in landing your dream job.

46:27 And at least for Nicole, one of the things that jumped out at me is for her job, she you know, literally walked all of these trails and she was like the best and planted trees like in a volume that was just like insane. They broke down the numbers and I was just like, how was that physically possible to plant that many trees in one day? Oh my gosh. And I don't think that was necessarily her dream job. But she loved it and she felt passionate about it, and they talked about how she was an artist. The really sad thing is that a lot of the people that were gonna talk about or some of these younger, you know, women and girls, a lot of them probably never were old enough or had the opportunity to hold down a job that they could feel passionate about, let alone, I mean having a job at all. Some of them were like fourteen fifteen sixteen. Wow, in a reading about love, you may run into obstacles, limitations, or disappointments.

47:47 Like the family love. You know, That's what I'm thinking of. Yeah, And I know we've we've actually gotten this card a few times recently, just got it like, yeah, So I'm not going to read the description on the card because I don't think it really adds anything. But it's just it's kind of insane because I didn't I didn't immediately think, oh, Ace of Cups, Yeah that really makes sense. But holy shit, that really makes sense. Well just the imagery too of you know, the cup running over, like we've talked about, that relates to how much extra money they had. Their cup was running over with funds.

48:34 That's a really good point. I didn't even think about that they literally had all of those excess funds that they you know, then don't needed to try to help the other people. How crazy is it that there's freaking tear drops on it? Oh like we literally said that, but like kind of as a joke. Yeah, I was like, there's no way we won't that won't happen. Like, I want to just google Ace of Cups because we've had the same you know, the same book that we've been reading from. Yeah, you know what, I can also grab the traditional Tarot book two. So this is the biddy one, the bitty tarot that we like or I like.

49:20 I don't like it too. It's a tero bitty. That's one of our Patreon tears it is. Yeah, you know, and I'm just realizing that we forgot to say for regular stream, we're going to put out the episode two of High Wave Tiers next week. Patreon you're going to get episode two later this week, yay, and then Patreon you because you're getting both of them immediately. We don't want you to not have content for that following week, so you're going to be getting a Patreon on Bonus listener style story episode. So, yeah, I was gonna I'm looking at you. Am I allowed to say that? I think?

50:10 So? Yeah, Okay, Yeah, I'm just looking to you for approval, I think so. Okay. So the way it so, it describes the card kind of like we've heard before with the hand holding the cup out of the clouds. It says, a symbol of your awareness and spiritual energy influence, which that's kind of interesting, like their awareness and their influence be kind of the family of Nicole, Nicole's fan. Okay, well, and I think that for it's not something that will probably go super in depth on, but to a lot of the other women and girls and their families that are part of the indigenous community, there's such a connection to their spirit virtuality that that's kind of interesting to be to see that coming in.

51:06 Yeah, and then it goes on to say below the hand is a vast sea covered with lotus blossoms, signifying the awakening of the human spirit. A dove descends towards the cup, a symbol of divine love flowing through a subconscious mind and conscious awareness. And that was just the description of the card. So I'm going to scroll to the reverse. You can see if you see anything in there, and I'm going to read this quickly too. Okay in my head. Oh okay, so go okay, so cool. So I want to read from this one because it is really short.

51:48 It's the pictorial key to the tari that comes with the traditional deck. I want to read both sides because I think it's interesting to see the flip of it for this case. So divinatory meanings House of the true heart, joy, content, abode, nourishment, abundance, fertility, and that's in the upright. In the reverse it says house of the false Heart, mutation, instability, and revolution and revolution.

52:34 Let me tell you that the revolution piece kind of gives me a little bit of chills as I think about going into part two, because we do have some information about some revolution level shit. Wow, that's crazy. Yeah, we should break out the little book more often and just see what it says, you know. Yeah, just all of the books. I do really like to look at it a little bit deeper. Yeah, me too, because I think the sometimes the modern witch taro looks really different from the traditional and I think this one's really pretty close. It's got the.

53:26 Dove this well oh gosh, Okay, Well, I was just saying, I'm reading, like, okay, I'll just read this whole paragraph. Okay. The ace of cups reverse may be a sign that you are repressing your emotions, not wanting to express yourself fully to the outside world. You have your reasons for keeping your feelings close, not wanting others to know what's going on inside. You may feel embarrassed or afraid of what might happen if you were to express your emotions. You may worry that if you allow your feelings to flow, they might turn into an overwhelming flood that can't be switched off. However, be careful that you do not create an internal blockage by repressing how you feel. If you are not ready to share your emotions, that's okay. You can find ways to release them privately through journaling and creative projects, movement or screaming. Maybe starting a movement right, but this one or screaming your frustration and anger out in the car.

54:30 Oh my wow. I feel like that was what Caitlin was doing. There's a couple of stories that I'm not gonna get into, but suppressing the emotions I'm letting that overwhelm you. The fact that it talks about a literal flood when we're talking about a highway of tears. Yeah, screaming in the car too. Wow, Okay, there's literally in the b There's a couple of different stories that that's I'm wow, I'm fucked up right now. And the fact that it was saying like that you might be embarrassed by your emotions like that reminded me too of Nichole's family of how like they were kind of embarrassed well.

55:20 And I think back to some of the families of the indigenous women, some of the things that they said about how angry they were and how hard they had to try to like make sure that they were approaching these people that were supposed to be helping them in a way that hopefully they would actually help them, and how frustrating it was to just like feel like you have to be nice to this person when they're not doing their job. And they're not helping you and I wow, oh wow, okay, it works in a lot of ways. Yeah, oh my gosh, all right, you guys we did. I'm really excited to come back for part two. Yeah. I cannot believe it said movement and revolution. Yeah in that holy shit. Wow. All right, you guys. We're gonna wrap for today, but we'll be back. Have a creepy day.

56:30 See you next Tuesday or sooner. If you're a Patreon yay, or never if you're Robert Picton. Oh it was like, if you're not listening, yeah, you. Showed be so for all of you that are listening. If you have any true crime or paranormal stories that you want us to share, maybe with the whole Pacific Northwest, Yes, we would love to read them on the pod. Yes we will read them out, not just in our heads. Yes, they don't have to be from the Pacific Northwest. If you would like to share, email us at PNW hauntsand Homicides at gmail dot com. It's all spelled out, no special characters, super duper easyps.

57:21 Follow us on Instagram and Facebook. Same thing as the email at PNW Hanson Homicides all spelled out. No special characters. Please also rate and review us on whatever platform you're listening to, and check out our stories on social media because our meme game is hot. Agreed and if you agree like Caitlin, you can also find us on Patreon and support the show. Bitchen, I'll preface this next section we know what Kitlin is thinking about.

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