Oct. 17, 2024

DVA Month Bonus - PNW Haunts and Homicides Presents - The Highway of Tears Part 1

DVA Month Bonus - PNW Haunts and Homicides Presents - The Highway of Tears Part 1
Listen to "DVA Month Bonus - PNW Haunts and Homicides Presents - The Highway of Tears Part 1" on Spreaker.
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Season 2True CrimeDomestic ViolenceVictim AdvocacyEducationMissing Person

In week 3 of Domestic Violence Month, we're sharing an episode from PNW Haunts & Homicides, hosted by the amazing and talented Caitlyn and Cassie. Normally they focus on all things spooky in the Pacific Northwest, but in this two-part episode, they have branched out to talk about the Highway of Tears.

In case you haven't heard of this, the Highway of Tears refers to a stretch of Highway 16 in British Columbia, Canada, where many Indigenous women and girls have gone missing or been found murdered since the 1970s.

It runs about 450 miles between Prince George and Prince Rupert and is known for being remote and having limited transportation options, making it dangerous for those who need to hitchhike. Covering these tragic cases serves to draw attention to the systemic issues facing Indigenous communities, such as racism, poverty, and a lack of police response, leading to calls for greater action and justice for the victims, and even to a formal inquiry by the Canadian government.

IMPORTANT NOTE! To listen to Part 2 head over to the PNW Haunts and Homicides Website at https://sinspod.co/tears2 or you can always find it wherever you get your podcasts. Head over, listen, and show them some love by following them on all the typical socials.

Here are PNW's Show notes!
This week there's no clever title we're sticking with the name coined for a series of stories that take place along the highway that makes the devastating facts of the case all too clear on its own. Links to the references I would highly recommend for any further independent study on this topic: Highway of Tears Documentary you can watch the Official Trailer here and the Highway of Tears Book.

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To listen ad free, visit sinspod dot com slash subscribe

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starting at two ninety nine a month. You'll also get

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Welcome to the third of our What Happens Here, Happens

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Everywhere Domestic Violence Awareness Month bonus episodes. I'm Sean and

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with Me as always is the one and Only John.

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I am the only John in the room.

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This week we have a presentation from PNW Hanson Homicides,

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hosted by the awesome and spooky Caitlin and Cassie. They

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generally focus on paranormal related true crime stories in the

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Pacific Northwest, but this one is a bit different. We

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ask Caitlin and Cassie if we could share this episode

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with all of you because here in the US, October

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fourteenth is observed as Indigenous People's Day.

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For this episode, Caitlin and Cassie discussed the Highway of Tears,

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a highway in British Columbia where many women, mostly Indigenous,

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have disappeared or been found murdered. We wanted to share

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this episode with all of you because Indigenous women experience

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violence at an alarming rate. More than four and five

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Indigenous women living in America have experienced violence, and the

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crisis of deaths and disappearances along Highway sixteen prompted the

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Canadian government to conduct an official inquiry. When you're done,

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head over to PNW Hauntsonhomicides dot com and check out

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their other episodes, subscribe and make sure to follow them

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on all the socials.

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And now a special presentation of PNW Haunts and Homicides.

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Hi Cassie, Hi, Caitlin, Hi, creepy people. Hi, Hello, this

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is p and W Hants and Homicides again.

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Yeah, always always, We're always going to be here forever

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and ever until you die.

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I mean for some of you, we might be here

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after you die. Oh, I mean I hate to go.

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That is sad. Oh my god.

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I don't want any of our people to ever die.

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Don't ever pass away.

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Okay, Can you guys do us a favor and live forever? Yeah? Please,

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and thank you, And also tell like a hundred of

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your closest friends to come and listen, or like maybe

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a million yeah, like a cool mill. Yeah, okay, a

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cool mill. Ah yay, Okay. Well that's enough laughing. Yeah,

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not a lot of lefter on this one. See, I

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did my best. Okay, I found another case to preempt

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this one, like just trying to drag my feet a

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little bit. And here we are. Nonetheless we're here. Okay,

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you guys.

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I was trying so hard to like not get us

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to record this today, and she was like, no, we

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have to do it.

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Yeah, okay, rip that band aid off. Fine, Okay, here

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we go today we travel up north to British Columbia.

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It's the westernmost province of Canada. I'm not gonna pull

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any punches here, you guys. We're talking about a specific

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stretch of highway runs between Prince George aka the Gateway

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to the North and Prince Rupert. They're not actual princes

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is We're not talking about castles. It's you know, two

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separate areas. So just clarifying a lot of princes up there.

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What's going on? I know, if you didn't happen to

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major in Canadian geography, which would be a very obscure. Yeah,

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program I think or this just doesn't sound familiar. We're

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going to be talking about the Highway of Tears because

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I keep my damn promises, Yeah you do. This is

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where a mind blowing number of murders have taken place,

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many have remained unsolved for decades. Obviously, we briefly touched

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on this and our coverage of Bobby Jack Fowler. Yeah,

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Bobby Jack shit sick. Yeah, but you know, we wouldn't

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dare leave it at that. It would be horrific. Like,

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this is definitely a case in its own right. If

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you know anything about this case, and I'm sure many

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of you do, you know it's a tragedy of massive proportions.

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We're going to get into a bit of the background

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and touch very briefly on some of the historical context

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of this case. I'll start with some of the information

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taken directly from the Highway of Tears documentary, which I

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highly recommend. The documentary is narrated by the guy from Firefly,

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Nathan Fillion. I've never seen it. Yeah, yeah, I don't know.

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I'm not a big sci fi person, but I heard

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it was.

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Really good and then ended, So I was like, do

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I want to piss myself off?

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Na, No, today I probably wouldn't. But I cannot tell

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you enough first of all, how much I love his voice, though,

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but Also, even if sci fi isn't your flavor, you

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gotta love a celebrity that lends said voice to such

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important storytelling, for sure. So we heart you, Nathan Philia.

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Good guy, good guy, I mean, I hope gosh right,

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and we're just sitting here like praising him. Yeah. Actually, yeah,

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that's about all of the feel good that I got

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for you today. So without much further ado, here we do.

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In twenty thirteen, Human Rights Watch released a report stating

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that the Royal Canadian Mounted Police in Northern British Columbia

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failed to protect Indigenous women. I'd argue that's probably a

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bit of an understatement, and unfortunately it's a bit of

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a pattern as well. Indigenous women are three point five

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times more likely to experience violence than non indigenous women. Wow,

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that's a big difference, I feel like absolutely, And I

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know we've talked about like how disproportionate that is in

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other cases in the past, So I think probably if

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you know, you listen to us regularly, it's something that

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you might have at least a cursory familiarity with. Five

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hundred eighty two Indigenous women have been reported missing and

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murdered across Canada, and that's a figure that's taken directly

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from the documentary, So that number has only gone up.

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Considering the fact that Indigenous women make up about four

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percent of the female Canadian population, this is a pretty

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staggering number, and I have bad news on that front. Unfortunately,

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according to more recent information, that number has likely more

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than doubled. What more than doubled? M hm? Oh my god?

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Where are they going? Not anywhere? Good?

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What the fuck?

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Piling right on? Many advocates and experts believe this number

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is inaccurate, being far too low and conservative to match

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the lived experience of those within these communities. Either way,

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that accounts for less than thirty five years of Canada's

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overall history.

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So less than thirty five years, hm, wow, Like, how

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much more is it really?

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And how many are they?

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Just?

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Like, eh, they just ran away, they just left pretty much.

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I mean, it's the type of thing where it's hard

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to even get an accurate statistic, which I think, you know,

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Like I say, the advocates and experts in this area

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are saying, there's probably a lot of them that don't

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even get reported missing, and there's a lot of reasons

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why those numbers are probably inaccurate and not in the

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good way. So I think it's safe to say that

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Indigenous women are significantly over represented among missing and murdered women. Unfortunately,

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we've seen in other cases that this is true in

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the US as well. This is not an isolated issue.

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It's not just a problem in one country or one

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specific part of the world. I know we like our

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problems to be far away, but I can't give you

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that in this case. Now, you might recall that we've

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discussed the forced removal of children from their homes in

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both Canada and the US before. Yeah, sometimes this was

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done so that Native children could be adopted out to

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white families, but there's but also the problematic history of

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residential schools, where Indigenous children had both their family and

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cultural ties all but erased in addition to facing horrific

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abuse in many cases. You can refer back to the

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Joseph Chandro case, where we do discuss the baby scoop

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a bit more. But today we're going to focus on

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the specific aspects of violence against Indigenous women. The underreported

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and uninvestigated murders and disappearances of First Nation women in

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the area is honestly just the latest iteration in a

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pattern of abuse against Indigenous people by those that have

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colonized them. We have an awareness of a variety of

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these fraught topics and understand the horrific impact it has

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had on the population. As a result, we can't over

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look these things as it relates to the complex issues

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facing the Indigenous population in terms of their history, the

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world they inhabit today, and the impact it has on

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their future. But we'll be focusing on specific aspects that

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won't offer a detailed look at the residential schools and

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forced adoptions today. I really just want to specifically talk

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about the violence that has been perpetrated in a very

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targeted way against women. If parts of this story don't

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fit into the true crime related mold in your mind,

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I would beg you to bear with us because this

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is a story that needs to be told. So this

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feels like a pretty good place to talk about some terminology. Now,

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the documentary is heavy with usage of the term aboriginal

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in the narration. I think oftentimes we look for one

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size fits all terminology, but I wanted to avoid that

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tech Native is a bit of a loaded term, and

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aboriginal isn't really the ideal term in every case either

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not Everyone feels the same about each of these terms,

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and I'm not going to dive deep into an explanation

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with either term, and that's just for the sake of brevity.

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I think this can be a great area to begin

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an exploration of our own and I'm going to include

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an extensive list of resources that I explored for terminology

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and details of the cases in the show notes. But

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as I said, even though it's a frequently used term

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in the documentary, which is perhaps somewhat dated at this point,

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upon reflection, I have polled resources in order to approach

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our terminology in the most culturally sensitive and conscientious way possible. Yeah,

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I hope to bear witness to these stories with the

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utmost respect.

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It's really hard to know, Like there's so many different

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things out there, and you can google one thing, and

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then one article will say one thing, and then someone

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will say something else, and there I try to look

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for them from like the actual people who it's affecting, right.

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But they I feel like all of them say something different. Yeah.

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I think that one of the things that really struck

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me is that feeling that we sort of look for

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these catch all terms because we want to do the

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right thing, but then we don't go a step further

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and really look at these things from more than one perspective.

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And so there are some terms that you know, for

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a lot of more recent years have been kind of

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the popularized terms that now people have pointed out, you know,

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maybe that's not the best. So it's a tough thing

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to identify, you know, a singular term that maybe pleases everybody.

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But I do think and I guess, you know, I'll

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talk about it a little bit here. I think there

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are some some things that all lay out why I'm

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choosing to do it this way and hopefully, you know,

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going about approaching this in a way that, like I said,

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is you know, respectful in you know, the to the

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best of my ability.

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Yeah, so we can do is do our best to

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try to say the right thing, and if we don't.

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Yeah, and yeah, I will be utilizing the term indigenous

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for the most part in this case, because we will

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discuss individual people and larger communities where tribal association may

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not always be clear cut. Part of that has to

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do with the nature of how available some you know,

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different records are. I will say that largely I think

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the people that we are are going to discuss in

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connection with this case, would identify as first nation. While

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it was tempted to really dig in on this front

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and disregard simplicity or brevity altogether, I think these women

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and girls have important stories that need to be shared,

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and that's really my focus. Their names, families, and unique

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cultural backgrounds are not only important to who they were

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as people, but as part of sharing their memory where

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that information is readily available and from what I'm able

221
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to gather, it seems like that's clear cut. I'll do

222
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my best to be more specific, because not only is

223
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that widely accepted as the most appropriate approach, but it

224
00:15:48.919 --> 00:15:51.559
feels like the right thing to do if I can.

225
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If you know someone's name, you don't just say hey,

226
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you right, yeah. But I'm also not going to call

227
00:16:01.519 --> 00:16:06.919
you Patricia if your real friends call you Patty. So

228
00:16:07.519 --> 00:16:09.919
I just want to be sensitive to the fact that

229
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words matter, and you know, the the labels and the

230
00:16:16.000 --> 00:16:19.519
connections that we make to you know, anyone that we

231
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talk about, we want to be respectful in that. So

232
00:16:22.600 --> 00:16:25.639
hopefully we're all kind of clear on that. Now for

233
00:16:25.759 --> 00:16:29.559
the topical issue today, I think you did a really

234
00:16:29.639 --> 00:16:34.440
good job explaining that. Okay, yeah, all right, there's really

235
00:16:34.480 --> 00:16:37.679
nothing else we need to discuss as kind of a precursor,

236
00:16:39.440 --> 00:16:43.240
so stoling only makes ripping this band aid off that

237
00:16:43.360 --> 00:16:49.000
much harder. Dozens of women have been reported missing or

238
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murdered along the Highway sixteen corridor, known as the Highway

239
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of Tears. There are countless other disappearances, and we'll be

240
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trying to get to as many of them as possible,

241
00:17:01.039 --> 00:17:05.640
especially because many remain unsolved. But before we dive into

242
00:17:05.640 --> 00:17:09.720
the disappearances, I feel it's important to talk about one

243
00:17:09.720 --> 00:17:12.920
thing in particular that has had a devastating impact on

244
00:17:13.000 --> 00:17:18.599
the female population in Indigenous communities. We've talked about other

245
00:17:18.759 --> 00:17:21.880
social issues, but this one hits hard at the center

246
00:17:22.440 --> 00:17:30.480
of Indigenous womanhood and motherhood. Specifically, sterilization has been imposed

247
00:17:30.559 --> 00:17:36.160
on Indigenous women in Canada, not once or twice or

248
00:17:36.160 --> 00:17:42.359
in isolated areas. Sexual sterilization legislation was passed in Alberta

249
00:17:42.480 --> 00:17:48.519
and was active between nineteen twenty eight and nineteen seventy two,

250
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and in British Columbia from nineteen thirty three to nineteen

251
00:17:53.920 --> 00:17:56.920
seventy three. Wow decades.

252
00:17:57.359 --> 00:18:01.480
I just don't get that it does not compute in

253
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the brain.

254
00:18:02.440 --> 00:18:07.880
No, but this legislation was intended to target Indigenous women.

255
00:18:09.440 --> 00:18:14.400
Coerced sterilization of Indigenous women took place both within and

256
00:18:14.519 --> 00:18:22.240
outside existing legislation and in federally operated hospitals. It's an

257
00:18:22.319 --> 00:18:25.759
ugly and shameful part of history, especially because it was

258
00:18:25.839 --> 00:18:30.640
government sanctioned. The practice has allegedly continued into the twenty

259
00:18:30.640 --> 00:18:34.720
first century. Now this is where we explain that allegedly

260
00:18:35.000 --> 00:18:39.079
is one of my least favorite terms, but for legal reasons,

261
00:18:39.359 --> 00:18:43.759
you'll find it pops up from time to time. Anyway,

262
00:18:44.759 --> 00:18:49.359
approximately one hundred Indigenous women have shared stories being pressured

263
00:18:49.839 --> 00:18:54.279
to consent to sterilization. This took place from between the

264
00:18:54.359 --> 00:18:58.039
nineteen seventies and all the way up to twenty eighteen.

265
00:18:58.400 --> 00:19:03.640
Oh my god, really yes, and occurred oftentimes while these

266
00:19:03.680 --> 00:19:10.039
women were in an extremely vulnerable state, either during their

267
00:19:10.079 --> 00:19:16.279
pregnancy or childbirth. Oh my god, Let that sink in

268
00:19:16.400 --> 00:19:22.279
for a moment. This has occurred in all of our lifetimes.

269
00:19:23.319 --> 00:19:25.400
I am we sure as shit know that our government

270
00:19:25.440 --> 00:19:28.079
here in the States has done it as well, and

271
00:19:28.160 --> 00:19:32.839
quite frankly still doing it today with certain populations. I

272
00:19:32.920 --> 00:19:37.079
just don't understand why I'm literally shaking with rage, but

273
00:19:37.160 --> 00:19:40.799
we're going to fight to channel it into something productive

274
00:19:41.000 --> 00:19:45.160
and stay focused. I don't want children, but I want

275
00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:49.640
to burn this whole goddamn planet to the ground to

276
00:19:49.720 --> 00:19:53.200
protect women's rights when it comes to freedom of choice

277
00:19:53.440 --> 00:20:00.440
in relation to fertility and family planning, regardless of what

278
00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:04.240
that choice is for you, your partner, your loved ones,

279
00:20:05.200 --> 00:20:12.160
because it should be your choice. Okay, well, deactivate caps lock.

280
00:20:12.279 --> 00:20:15.480
Now getting back to the business of dozens of missing

281
00:20:15.519 --> 00:20:19.599
women along Highway sixteen. Right about now is when you're

282
00:20:19.640 --> 00:20:24.000
probably realizing that, based on sheer volume, we simply couldn't

283
00:20:24.079 --> 00:20:29.319
possibly cover all of the individual cases adequately. And you're right.

284
00:20:30.400 --> 00:20:32.839
This is about the time that I started ugly crying

285
00:20:32.839 --> 00:20:36.519
in my research, and then again when in the editing phase.

286
00:20:38.640 --> 00:20:41.799
I've been told the expectation upon meeting me would be

287
00:20:41.839 --> 00:20:46.400
that I'm one of those delicate, pretty criers. I can't

288
00:20:46.440 --> 00:20:48.880
get out a real sneeze for the life of me.

289
00:20:49.000 --> 00:20:53.000
But I'm a full blown, snotty mess in the crying department.

290
00:20:53.559 --> 00:20:56.839
And this, much like my girl Miley, came in like

291
00:20:56.920 --> 00:21:01.960
a wrecking ball. It's I think that's going to be

292
00:21:01.960 --> 00:21:04.519
the last I think you can belt that out a

293
00:21:04.519 --> 00:21:10.319
little bit more. Come on, I mean, in all seriousness,

294
00:21:10.599 --> 00:21:17.440
it utterly fucked me up. I'm red and puffey emotionally,

295
00:21:17.480 --> 00:21:21.640
and also around the eyes something weird was happening where

296
00:21:21.680 --> 00:21:27.559
water was seeping out of them. There are simply too

297
00:21:27.680 --> 00:21:32.720
many active missing persons and murder cases associated with the

298
00:21:32.799 --> 00:21:35.279
Highway of Tears to present it all here with the

299
00:21:35.359 --> 00:21:40.079
level of respect that I'd like to. I already have

300
00:21:40.160 --> 00:21:43.119
plans in the works to cover some additional cases in

301
00:21:43.160 --> 00:21:48.839
this area. So just bear with me, because unfortunately, particularly

302
00:21:49.079 --> 00:21:53.799
when the investigative work is this thin, to put it mildly,

303
00:21:54.119 --> 00:21:57.000
there's not much for us to talk about in relation

304
00:21:57.119 --> 00:21:59.839
to each victim, and I'm only going to cover what

305
00:21:59.880 --> 00:22:02.640
I can crush. We can raise awareness about some of

306
00:22:02.640 --> 00:22:07.000
the slimmer cases by talking about this, though, So that's

307
00:22:07.039 --> 00:22:10.160
my aim, and I'm going to see what more I

308
00:22:10.200 --> 00:22:13.680
can dig for. I hope that one day we can

309
00:22:13.720 --> 00:22:16.799
go deeper on more as there are breaks in the cases.

310
00:22:18.519 --> 00:22:20.480
So what we're going to do is share as many

311
00:22:20.519 --> 00:22:23.519
resources as possible to try to spread the word and

312
00:22:23.599 --> 00:22:27.119
keep these cases alive. We're going to talk about some

313
00:22:27.200 --> 00:22:31.319
of the cases that were specifically connected according to official

314
00:22:31.400 --> 00:22:36.160
record and classification, and then some of those that weren't,

315
00:22:36.480 --> 00:22:41.039
at least in an official capacity, whatever that means. Because

316
00:22:41.079 --> 00:22:43.200
did you really think I'd only talk about the ones

317
00:22:43.240 --> 00:22:47.559
that are officially classified as Highway of Tears cases. Don't

318
00:22:47.559 --> 00:22:53.799
be doffed, darling. Hell no, I'm terrified that without being

319
00:22:53.880 --> 00:22:57.720
linked to a massive story like this, that those cases

320
00:22:58.359 --> 00:23:02.359
have less and less hope as time passes of being solved.

321
00:23:02.599 --> 00:23:06.119
I'll preface this next section by saying, I realize we're

322
00:23:06.160 --> 00:23:09.160
about to discuss one of the missing that came much

323
00:23:09.240 --> 00:23:14.319
later in the timeline and is not indigenous, but we're

324
00:23:14.319 --> 00:23:18.279
trying to create some context here, so please just trust me.

325
00:23:19.359 --> 00:23:23.880
I trust you, okay, with my life.

326
00:23:24.039 --> 00:23:27.720
Nicole Horror was twenty five years old in June of

327
00:23:27.759 --> 00:23:32.000
two thousand and two. On the twenty first, she disappeared

328
00:23:32.000 --> 00:23:37.000
when hitchhiking. She is officially linked to the Highway of Tears.

329
00:23:38.039 --> 00:23:41.200
Her parents learned how different and fraught the experience of

330
00:23:41.240 --> 00:23:45.519
others who'd lost loved ones on the corridor had unfortunately been.

331
00:23:46.160 --> 00:23:50.279
Her father, Jack commented how embarrassing and upsetting that was.

332
00:23:51.599 --> 00:23:54.359
It was diametrically opposed to how he and his wife

333
00:23:54.440 --> 00:23:58.680
Betty had been treated by the RCMP. That's the Royal

334
00:23:58.720 --> 00:24:03.160
Canadian Mounted Police. Ooh yeah, so OURCMP for short from

335
00:24:03.160 --> 00:24:10.039
here forward, you're not going to call them mountiefs. No. Oh,

336
00:24:10.079 --> 00:24:14.200
I can't imagine it. I don't know. When Nicole went missing,

337
00:24:14.480 --> 00:24:16.839
the search for her was one of the largest in

338
00:24:16.960 --> 00:24:21.480
Northern BC, with a reported three hundred searchers. At that time.

339
00:24:22.400 --> 00:24:27.440
Six other girls had already disappeared. In some of their cases,

340
00:24:28.359 --> 00:24:32.160
several years had passed with lackluster efforts on the part

341
00:24:32.160 --> 00:24:36.839
of law enforcement, scant coverage by the media, and little

342
00:24:36.880 --> 00:24:39.839
in the way of financial and other practical support for

343
00:24:39.920 --> 00:24:46.000
those searches and investigations. In stark contrast, the investigators collected

344
00:24:46.160 --> 00:24:50.839
hundreds of hours of surveillance camera footage from local businesses

345
00:24:50.880 --> 00:24:55.920
along the highway. Even after the official search was downgraded,

346
00:24:55.960 --> 00:24:59.920
the family continued for weeks thanks to their support system

347
00:25:00.079 --> 00:25:04.200
that was able to pitch in financially. Nicole Horror also

348
00:25:04.319 --> 00:25:08.599
had the benefit of some minor celebrity attention. Her prom

349
00:25:08.720 --> 00:25:14.319
date had been Olympic speed skater Steven elm Oh wow. Yeah.

350
00:25:14.480 --> 00:25:18.839
He also had a hand in fundraising her father's employer,

351
00:25:19.039 --> 00:25:22.319
the Hudson's Bay company even put up a twenty five

352
00:25:22.359 --> 00:25:28.720
thousand dollars reward. Oh yeah, they received support from locals

353
00:25:28.759 --> 00:25:35.440
in so many forms, groceries, photo copying, posters. The Rotary

354
00:25:35.440 --> 00:25:38.799
Club of Red Deer East offered a second reward of

355
00:25:38.839 --> 00:25:45.039
five thousand dollars. Wow. Yeah, Nicole's company had granted everyone

356
00:25:45.200 --> 00:25:49.559
time off their work. She worked as It's actually a

357
00:25:49.559 --> 00:25:52.319
really cool job. She worked for a company where they

358
00:25:52.319 --> 00:25:56.319
would go all through like these rural areas and they

359
00:25:56.319 --> 00:26:01.119
would plant trees. Oh she planted That was her job,

360
00:26:01.160 --> 00:26:04.599
and she was incredible at it. Oh my god, where

361
00:26:04.599 --> 00:26:08.200
do I get that job? I know? Yeah, So her

362
00:26:08.240 --> 00:26:13.559
company actually gave everybody like multiple days off work so

363
00:26:13.599 --> 00:26:16.319
that they could go and help the search. That is

364
00:26:16.400 --> 00:26:21.480
so awesome. Yeah. In addition to receiving more support from

365
00:26:21.599 --> 00:26:26.200
law enforcement and a variety of community sources, the reporting

366
00:26:26.240 --> 00:26:31.480
of Nicole was colored very differently. Authorities spoke about her differently,

367
00:26:31.640 --> 00:26:35.160
going to some effort to distance her from the other

368
00:26:35.319 --> 00:26:40.839
highway of tears disappearances. It was clear to Nichole's family

369
00:26:41.079 --> 00:26:44.359
that she was being treated as a worthy victim, and

370
00:26:44.400 --> 00:26:46.960
they were disgusted to find that the same could not

371
00:26:47.079 --> 00:26:51.200
be said of the other women so the family made

372
00:26:51.200 --> 00:26:54.559
a concerted effort to bring attention to those other cases,

373
00:26:55.599 --> 00:26:58.559
and they really resented how the other families were treated.

374
00:26:59.480 --> 00:27:02.200
Through their efforts, many of the girls made their debut

375
00:27:02.359 --> 00:27:11.200
in major publications. So Nichole's family basically got pissed that

376
00:27:12.079 --> 00:27:15.559
they had never heard of some of these other missing

377
00:27:15.599 --> 00:27:20.200
persons cases as they should. Yeah, and they made a

378
00:27:20.240 --> 00:27:24.200
point of bringing them up in interviews with the media,

379
00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:27.440
and that is a big part of why some of

380
00:27:27.480 --> 00:27:31.200
them ever made it into the major publications.

381
00:27:31.279 --> 00:27:35.319
Wow, this family is amazing going through what they're going

382
00:27:35.400 --> 00:27:37.599
through and still worried about other people.

383
00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:41.480
Yeah, they were able to donate excess funds that were

384
00:27:41.599 --> 00:27:46.519
raised for Nicole to crime stoppers and local search and rescue.

385
00:27:47.039 --> 00:27:50.920
There are other families that have done their damnedest despite

386
00:27:50.960 --> 00:27:54.880
the odds and obstacles. And I told you that there's

387
00:27:55.000 --> 00:27:57.960
no way we could cover everyone. But we're going to

388
00:27:58.000 --> 00:28:00.759
get to a few of the rest, because you bet

389
00:28:00.799 --> 00:28:03.640
your sweet ass. We are not just going to talk

390
00:28:03.640 --> 00:28:09.759
about Nicole. She sounds like an incredible person. But you

391
00:28:09.839 --> 00:28:13.559
might even be thinking, Wow, there was a huge ground

392
00:28:13.599 --> 00:28:16.960
swall of support in Nicole's case, and I've been led

393
00:28:17.000 --> 00:28:19.440
to believe she was just one of the many that

394
00:28:19.519 --> 00:28:26.000
went missing. Is this when they maybe start a task force? No? No,

395
00:28:27.079 --> 00:28:30.960
And this is where the timeline really gets critical, because

396
00:28:31.000 --> 00:28:35.079
we have to briefly consider one other case that unexpectedly

397
00:28:35.200 --> 00:28:38.799
drew resources away from the Highway of Tears.

398
00:28:39.240 --> 00:28:43.200
H So they know that there's this like huge problem

399
00:28:43.319 --> 00:28:46.119
on this one highway, but there's not a task force

400
00:28:46.559 --> 00:28:47.000
for it.

401
00:28:47.559 --> 00:28:53.279
No, not yet. Okay, Okay, Yeah, that's fine, Right, you're okay,

402
00:28:54.440 --> 00:28:56.680
as long as we're all on the same page. Not

403
00:28:56.759 --> 00:28:59.640
even a low budget one, not even a little one

404
00:29:00.519 --> 00:29:04.119
moving in a totally different direction. Some of you may

405
00:29:04.160 --> 00:29:08.759
be anticipating that will cover Robert Picton as part of

406
00:29:08.799 --> 00:29:15.880
this case. Who I'm kidding, Who I've heard? Yeah, and

407
00:29:15.960 --> 00:29:20.720
certainly in the documentary that was one of my major resources.

408
00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:24.400
They did cover him. But all you're going to get

409
00:29:24.559 --> 00:29:28.880
from me on But all you're going to get on

410
00:29:28.920 --> 00:29:31.559
that from me today is the view from about ten

411
00:29:31.599 --> 00:29:37.799
thousand feet, partially because of my disdain for that sack

412
00:29:37.960 --> 00:29:41.240
of shit that identifies as both a man and a

413
00:29:41.319 --> 00:29:45.480
serial killer, but also partially because we're really trying to

414
00:29:45.519 --> 00:29:50.079
focus on the Highway of Tiers specifically and it's truthfully

415
00:29:50.119 --> 00:29:53.440
related on the one hand, and on the other hand,

416
00:29:53.599 --> 00:30:00.319
a whole ass separate shit sandwich garnished with rumor of

417
00:30:00.519 --> 00:30:02.960
possible human meat consumption.

418
00:30:04.680 --> 00:30:07.319
That is so gross, Like if you guys don't know

419
00:30:07.359 --> 00:30:11.400
about that case, Yeah, it's fucking disgusting.

420
00:30:12.480 --> 00:30:14.759
And to be honest, that's where the line is for me.

421
00:30:15.240 --> 00:30:18.640
Cannibalism is just usually more than I can handle, which

422
00:30:18.640 --> 00:30:25.599
I feel like is the appropriate response. Yeah. Robert Picton's

423
00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:31.000
pig farm in Port Coquitlam, a suburb of Vancouver, is

424
00:30:31.039 --> 00:30:36.960
where numerous murders went all but unnoticed or perhaps more accurately,

425
00:30:37.720 --> 00:30:45.240
ignored by authorities, even when victims were reported missing. The

426
00:30:45.319 --> 00:30:49.359
DNA of thirty three different women was eventually found on

427
00:30:49.440 --> 00:30:53.440
his farm. Even though he was initially only charged with

428
00:30:53.519 --> 00:30:58.559
two counts of first degree murder. The investigation and trial

429
00:30:58.920 --> 00:31:05.240
cost Canadian more than one hundred million dollars. Holy shit,

430
00:31:05.640 --> 00:31:08.839
mm hmm, And it feels like a bit of bad

431
00:31:08.960 --> 00:31:13.880
karma that now authorities have to explain that to their citizens. Wow.

432
00:31:15.039 --> 00:31:17.519
Seems like if all you want to do is drill

433
00:31:17.640 --> 00:31:20.480
down to the dollars and cents, it would have made

434
00:31:20.480 --> 00:31:23.559
a hell of a lot more sense to investigate before

435
00:31:23.599 --> 00:31:26.759
it gets to that point. I don't know, maybe catch

436
00:31:26.799 --> 00:31:30.960
a serial killer and nip it in the bud. What

437
00:31:31.039 --> 00:31:31.440
do I know?

438
00:31:31.640 --> 00:31:31.839
Right?

439
00:31:32.680 --> 00:31:34.880
We could try blaming it on the fact that rural

440
00:31:34.920 --> 00:31:37.880
areas make it easy to hide evidence of a crime,

441
00:31:38.720 --> 00:31:42.160
just like it did on Highway sixteen. But I think

442
00:31:42.200 --> 00:31:48.319
we all know that is the may Did you know

443
00:31:48.440 --> 00:31:51.960
DP says that too all the time? Yes, because I

444
00:31:52.119 --> 00:31:55.599
binge listen to them as if we didn't love them enough.

445
00:31:58.079 --> 00:32:05.279
Back to our case. Delphine Anne Camelia Nicole. Oh, such

446
00:32:05.319 --> 00:32:10.440
a pretty name. So pretty. She was born February nineteen

447
00:32:10.480 --> 00:32:14.039
seventy five in the same hospital as another young girl

448
00:32:14.200 --> 00:32:18.200
in the community named Ramona. Don't worry, we're going to

449
00:32:18.200 --> 00:32:23.000
talk about her too. Delphine loved animals, which is always

450
00:32:23.000 --> 00:32:27.119
a plus and a rural upbringing. Yeah, but she especially

451
00:32:27.160 --> 00:32:33.079
loved horses, because what girl doesn't, duh. She was quite

452
00:32:33.119 --> 00:32:36.599
a bit younger than her siblings. Her sister really thought

453
00:32:36.640 --> 00:32:42.279
of her as her baby too. Her parents divorced when

454
00:32:42.279 --> 00:32:44.960
she was young, and then just a few short years later,

455
00:32:45.359 --> 00:32:49.440
her father died in nineteen eighty six. She was pretty young.

456
00:32:51.079 --> 00:32:54.599
Delphine moved in with her mother Judy and Judy's new husband.

457
00:32:55.519 --> 00:32:58.279
She wasn't happy in this new home and living situation.

458
00:32:59.160 --> 00:33:01.240
It led to her staying away from home as much

459
00:33:01.279 --> 00:33:06.799
as possible, which honestly most teenagers do to some degree anyway, Yeah,

460
00:33:07.200 --> 00:33:13.000
I digress. Her juvenile criminal record began during this period.

461
00:33:13.319 --> 00:33:17.359
When Delphine went missing, she had last been seen hitchhiking

462
00:33:17.440 --> 00:33:20.960
back towards home. Her mother was very ill, and her

463
00:33:20.960 --> 00:33:25.640
friends insisted her intent was to return home. They adamantly

464
00:33:26.160 --> 00:33:28.880
disagreed with the assertion that she might have run away

465
00:33:28.880 --> 00:33:31.920
from home. Of course, the fact that she had a

466
00:33:32.039 --> 00:33:35.640
history of bad behavior as a juvenile, the authorities were

467
00:33:35.759 --> 00:33:39.880
all too comfortable dismissing her disappearance as a runaway. She'd

468
00:33:39.880 --> 00:33:44.599
come back. I hate that. Remember what I said about thirteen.

469
00:33:46.880 --> 00:33:52.839
She went missing on June thirteenth, Wow of nineteen ninety

470
00:33:53.279 --> 00:33:56.640
Oh my gosh, all of these June dates, and then

471
00:33:56.880 --> 00:33:59.839
thirteenth was a big one in the Brophy case too.

472
00:34:00.200 --> 00:34:04.880
That was just what five days ago. Yeah, her disappearance

473
00:34:05.079 --> 00:34:08.400
is linked to the highway of tears by authorities in

474
00:34:08.440 --> 00:34:11.719
a twist of fate that's almost too cruel to come

475
00:34:11.760 --> 00:34:16.719
to grips with her cousin Cecilia and Nicole was murdered

476
00:34:16.760 --> 00:34:20.519
a few years later. Only three of the ten from

477
00:34:20.559 --> 00:34:25.440
this region of the highway victims were actually publicly confirmed

478
00:34:25.840 --> 00:34:31.320
as having been hitchhiking. Nationally, more than ninety percent of

479
00:34:31.400 --> 00:34:37.000
kids are found within a week. So this is what's

480
00:34:37.119 --> 00:34:41.719
so frustrating is with these types of numbers, it's like

481
00:34:43.000 --> 00:34:48.119
only a third of these people were actually confirmed as

482
00:34:48.840 --> 00:34:52.559
having been doing this, you know, I mean, now hindsight

483
00:34:52.639 --> 00:34:56.280
from twenty twenty two, hitchhiking is a very risky behavior.

484
00:34:57.559 --> 00:35:01.119
A lot of them were not even if they were, like,

485
00:35:01.199 --> 00:35:04.280
maybe we should, I don't know. Maybe still try looking

486
00:35:04.320 --> 00:35:04.599
for them.

487
00:35:04.679 --> 00:35:08.000
Yeah, definitely try looking for them. I mean, risky behavior

488
00:35:08.079 --> 00:35:09.760
doesn't mean you deserve to die.

489
00:35:09.920 --> 00:35:13.480
Right, And the one that really sticks with me is,

490
00:35:13.639 --> 00:35:16.280
you know they keep saying about a lot of these girls,

491
00:35:17.000 --> 00:35:21.280
Oh they'll come back, and then you look at it. Nationally,

492
00:35:21.639 --> 00:35:25.000
more than ninety percent of kids are found within a week.

493
00:35:26.679 --> 00:35:30.199
Well sure if they ran away, Yeah, but maybe don't

494
00:35:30.239 --> 00:35:33.800
wait the full week to start looking for them. If

495
00:35:34.119 --> 00:35:38.000
you start looking for them, because aren't the statistics if

496
00:35:38.039 --> 00:35:41.280
they were kidnapped are like far s the first twenty

497
00:35:41.280 --> 00:35:44.800
four hours? Yeah, and if you have family and friends

498
00:35:44.840 --> 00:35:48.639
who know these people, saying like, no, what, she didn't

499
00:35:48.679 --> 00:35:51.400
run away? You need to fucking listen. Yeah, you don't

500
00:35:51.440 --> 00:35:55.599
know them. The cops insisted there were no signs of

501
00:35:55.639 --> 00:35:59.920
foul play, and that, like many other runaways, she had

502
00:36:00.159 --> 00:36:02.920
likely fled to a city like Vancouver in the hopes

503
00:36:02.960 --> 00:36:06.280
of forging a new life on her own. They insisted

504
00:36:06.880 --> 00:36:11.679
many runaways had done just so. Though Delphine's family and

505
00:36:11.760 --> 00:36:18.320
friends tried looking for her in Vancouver, they were unsuccessful. Cecilia,

506
00:36:19.280 --> 00:36:22.760
born in nineteen seventy one, just a handful of years

507
00:36:22.760 --> 00:36:26.480
before her cousin Delphine, boarded a bus in nineteen eighty

508
00:36:26.559 --> 00:36:30.159
nine in Smithers on her way to Vancouver with a

509
00:36:30.199 --> 00:36:33.679
friend to visit her mother. The woman who had actually

510
00:36:33.840 --> 00:36:36.559
raised her in Smithers got a call from her saying

511
00:36:36.679 --> 00:36:39.840
she'd return in a couple of weeks, but it's unknown

512
00:36:39.960 --> 00:36:44.039
whether she actually arrived in Vancouver. We just don't know.

513
00:36:44.239 --> 00:36:47.119
There was one family member that claimed to see her there.

514
00:36:50.440 --> 00:36:55.800
The two cousins' disappearances happened so close together that there

515
00:36:55.880 --> 00:36:59.480
was actually an organization that had recently taken it upon

516
00:36:59.559 --> 00:37:03.000
themselves to help some of these families with a search

517
00:37:03.039 --> 00:37:06.280
for their missing loved ones, and they took both of

518
00:37:06.320 --> 00:37:12.079
them extremely seriously, because how often does lightning strike twice

519
00:37:12.280 --> 00:37:19.199
like that? I just yeah, fuck's sake, they're children. Yeah, Though,

520
00:37:19.320 --> 00:37:22.320
unlike her cousin, her disappearance and murder would not be

521
00:37:22.400 --> 00:37:26.039
attributed to the list of Highway of Tears victims, So

522
00:37:26.440 --> 00:37:30.960
only one of the two cousins was officially identified as

523
00:37:32.320 --> 00:37:35.599
And I keep touching on that with each of these

524
00:37:36.159 --> 00:37:38.639
you know, girls, and with each one of the women.

525
00:37:38.840 --> 00:37:43.079
And I'm going to explain why it's important, Okay, just

526
00:37:43.159 --> 00:37:48.800
an aside, if you will. Even so, it would be

527
00:37:48.880 --> 00:37:54.760
July of nineteen ninety three before a postal worker unexpectedly

528
00:37:55.159 --> 00:37:59.599
found a bloody shoe. I guess there's no way that

529
00:37:59.639 --> 00:38:06.280
could be expected, But a thorough search of the area

530
00:38:06.440 --> 00:38:09.960
was done. In fact, trained cadaver dogs were flown in

531
00:38:10.000 --> 00:38:16.199
from Portland, not by the RCMP, by the organization trying

532
00:38:16.239 --> 00:38:23.519
to help these families. Oh wow is my understanding. Wow classy. However,

533
00:38:23.920 --> 00:38:28.719
in the convening time since the initial report, a construction

534
00:38:28.920 --> 00:38:32.559
crew had begun work digging in the area to widen

535
00:38:32.599 --> 00:38:36.559
the road. Okay, couldn't wait for the cadaver dogs. They

536
00:38:36.840 --> 00:38:39.199
literally were just like, oh, there might be a body hair,

537
00:38:39.239 --> 00:38:45.519
It's fine. The excavation process likely would have recovered any remains,

538
00:38:46.039 --> 00:38:49.960
but they brought in the dogs anyway, which is so

539
00:38:50.119 --> 00:38:58.239
frustrating for just wait. Yeah, Like, Ultimately, this effort didn't

540
00:38:58.280 --> 00:39:01.840
pay off by moving the case forward, at least directly,

541
00:39:02.079 --> 00:39:04.159
but it does seem like it may have helped to

542
00:39:04.199 --> 00:39:08.360
generate leads. Then a tip from a psychic even came in,

543
00:39:08.920 --> 00:39:12.840
but unfortunately that didn't pay off, as is oftentimes the case.

544
00:39:14.000 --> 00:39:17.119
There was, however, a woman who produced a tip after

545
00:39:17.159 --> 00:39:20.760
speaking with a gas station employee who saw Delphine and

546
00:39:20.840 --> 00:39:24.079
her friends just before they parted ways on the night

547
00:39:24.119 --> 00:39:27.480
of her disappearance. Though she couldn't remember the name of

548
00:39:27.519 --> 00:39:32.119
that employee who provided the account, she did remember from

549
00:39:32.159 --> 00:39:37.280
her notes that this individual stated Delphine had gotten into

550
00:39:37.320 --> 00:39:44.679
a red sports car. Hmmm, jack fucking pot. It doesn't

551
00:39:44.719 --> 00:39:49.679
seem like a lot, but they had nothing, so now

552
00:39:49.679 --> 00:39:56.239
they have nothing and a red car. Yeah, possibly something. Yeah.

553
00:39:56.639 --> 00:39:59.000
Her mother was asked if there was anyone that she

554
00:39:59.039 --> 00:40:01.559
could think of that Delphine would have taken a ride

555
00:40:01.599 --> 00:40:05.800
from that she new drove a red car Apparently they

556
00:40:05.880 --> 00:40:08.320
get a name at that point, and it's a lead

557
00:40:08.400 --> 00:40:12.039
they were pursuing and provided to the police. So again,

558
00:40:13.119 --> 00:40:19.400
this is like a third party organization that is investigating

559
00:40:19.440 --> 00:40:23.559
this wow, and they're taking the information to the police

560
00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:28.920
because the families have had so little success getting anything

561
00:40:29.000 --> 00:40:33.679
done jeez. Though the name doesn't appear to have ever

562
00:40:33.760 --> 00:40:37.199
been released, nor to have paid off by the recovery

563
00:40:37.280 --> 00:40:40.239
of her body or the bringing of her killer to

564
00:40:40.480 --> 00:40:45.760
justice at least yet, which is hardly a satisfying way

565
00:40:45.960 --> 00:40:49.639
for the story to end for their families, though hopefully

566
00:40:49.719 --> 00:40:53.599
for all of you this won't be an unsatisfactory place

567
00:40:53.679 --> 00:40:57.559
to leave it for now until next time, as we

568
00:40:57.760 --> 00:41:04.719
continue the highway of time years, it's so heavy, it's

569
00:41:04.760 --> 00:41:10.599
going to get heavier. Yeah, okay, don't hate me. We

570
00:41:10.800 --> 00:41:11.320
love you.

571
00:41:11.400 --> 00:41:14.400
We love you for doing all of the dirty work

572
00:41:14.519 --> 00:41:16.039
for us. You know what I mean.

573
00:41:17.760 --> 00:41:20.039
I promise you that I'm going to give you some

574
00:41:20.079 --> 00:41:27.159
glimpses into the only bright spots that are accessible in

575
00:41:27.400 --> 00:41:31.760
the case. Yeah, because there is some really, I mean,

576
00:41:31.880 --> 00:41:35.119
we talked about Nicolehor's family and the things that they

577
00:41:35.159 --> 00:41:38.000
were doing to try to bring awareness to the other cases.

578
00:41:38.800 --> 00:41:42.679
There are some other good things and connections that are

579
00:41:42.719 --> 00:41:48.679
made and it's not enough, but it's something, Yeah, and

580
00:41:48.760 --> 00:41:52.599
I want to focus on that and you know, encourage

581
00:41:53.599 --> 00:41:57.079
those little nuggets to grow. Well, it's so amazing, like

582
00:41:57.119 --> 00:41:59.719
what a community can do when you're all like working

583
00:41:59.760 --> 00:42:01.280
to other. Yeah.

584
00:42:01.360 --> 00:42:06.559
And it's so great that the family shared that. Yeah,

585
00:42:06.639 --> 00:42:12.639
the other victims. Yeah, I think they understood that.

586
00:42:13.519 --> 00:42:18.360
And you know, they they really talked about in interviews,

587
00:42:19.000 --> 00:42:22.079
both in the documentary and other sources that I saw

588
00:42:22.320 --> 00:42:26.679
and in the book that I read. They really understood

589
00:42:27.039 --> 00:42:33.000
and acknowledged very openly what it meant in this situation

590
00:42:33.360 --> 00:42:38.360
to be able to use their privilege to help other people.

591
00:42:39.280 --> 00:42:44.760
And while it felt terrible that they you know that

592
00:42:44.760 --> 00:42:48.440
that was the case, and then that's the reality, and

593
00:42:48.480 --> 00:42:54.599
they took it and they used it. And I think, unfortunately,

594
00:42:54.719 --> 00:42:56.639
if that's the best we can do, we have to

595
00:42:56.719 --> 00:42:59.400
at least do that. Yeah.

596
00:42:59.679 --> 00:43:04.280
Imagine like going through that and then knowing how it

597
00:43:04.320 --> 00:43:07.039
would feel when you didn't have that support.

598
00:43:07.280 --> 00:43:12.280
It's one of the things that her sister and both

599
00:43:12.320 --> 00:43:14.599
of her parents talked about quite a bit.

600
00:43:15.159 --> 00:43:22.320
Yeah, Okay, Taro, Yeah, we are looking for a tarot

601
00:43:22.320 --> 00:43:26.400
card that will help us take some insight into this

602
00:43:27.159 --> 00:43:35.920
part one of Highway of Tears. M. Okay, I'm gonna

603
00:43:35.960 --> 00:43:39.679
I think I'm gonna do one more shuffle. Okay, then

604
00:43:39.679 --> 00:43:44.800
we'll let Caitlin decide what she wants to do. You know,

605
00:43:45.440 --> 00:43:48.079
you were saying, what if we get a card and

606
00:43:48.119 --> 00:43:51.880
it's someone like crying? I was just thinking, what if

607
00:43:51.880 --> 00:43:55.440
it's a card and there's a horse on it, the

608
00:43:55.559 --> 00:44:02.000
Royal Mounted Candy Police. M. Now watch we'll get something

609
00:44:02.039 --> 00:44:12.440
totally Yeah, okay that we've.

610
00:44:12.239 --> 00:44:16.960
Gotten this one so many times. There's a bunch of them.

611
00:44:17.000 --> 00:44:19.880
Oh and I turned right to cups. Oh my gosh.

612
00:44:19.960 --> 00:44:22.320
Sorry, there's a bunch of water droplets on it that

613
00:44:22.400 --> 00:44:23.960
literally look like tear drops.

614
00:44:23.960 --> 00:44:25.159
But that's crazy.

615
00:44:25.440 --> 00:44:28.840
We oh my, asked for tear drops and we literally

616
00:44:28.880 --> 00:44:30.239
sort of gotten them.

617
00:44:30.840 --> 00:44:32.400
Wow. We didn't even say what it was.

618
00:44:32.440 --> 00:44:34.519
For the people not watching, I apologize.

619
00:44:34.519 --> 00:44:39.159
We're getting there. Ace of cups and reverse. Yeah, it's

620
00:44:39.199 --> 00:44:42.800
got an upside down heart too. Like that makes me sad,

621
00:44:43.199 --> 00:44:47.800
I know. Okay, So for Ace of Cups, we have

622
00:44:48.159 --> 00:44:54.280
new love, beginning, a creative activity joy. The reversed ACE

623
00:44:54.400 --> 00:44:58.280
can indicate a delay in starting a relationship. It can

624
00:44:58.320 --> 00:45:02.920
also mean a romance that seemed promising doesn't develop or

625
00:45:02.960 --> 00:45:06.320
turn out as you'd hoped. This may not be the

626
00:45:06.400 --> 00:45:10.679
right time to start something new, or to get into

627
00:45:10.719 --> 00:45:17.199
a stranger's car. In a reading about money, the reverse

628
00:45:17.280 --> 00:45:19.559
ace suggests you may have to wait a while to

629
00:45:19.599 --> 00:45:22.719
profit from a new venture. Oh, this was a slow

630
00:45:22.760 --> 00:45:26.119
going case. Or it can mean you won't make as

631
00:45:26.199 --> 00:45:31.679
much as you'd expected. Oh, that crushes me. For every

632
00:45:31.840 --> 00:45:40.079
dollar that the other families tried to raise, like the

633
00:45:40.199 --> 00:45:45.599
efforts just flooded in. The fundraising was like quadruple yeah

634
00:45:45.920 --> 00:45:50.199
for Nicole. Yeah, I mean the other families put together

635
00:45:51.079 --> 00:45:54.159
all of these different fundraising events and they just couldn't.

636
00:45:54.440 --> 00:46:01.519
I mean, oh, it's just crushing. If the reading is

637
00:46:01.559 --> 00:46:05.039
about your work, you may encounter delays in landing your

638
00:46:05.119 --> 00:46:09.599
dream job. For creative people, this ace can represent a

639
00:46:09.719 --> 00:46:17.199
dry spell when you feel stifled or uninspired. It's funny

640
00:46:17.239 --> 00:46:23.559
because this talks about, you know, creativity, and if it's

641
00:46:23.599 --> 00:46:27.840
about your work, encountering delays in landing your dream job.

642
00:46:27.920 --> 00:46:31.400
And at least for Nicole, one of the things that

643
00:46:31.519 --> 00:46:35.119
jumped out at me is for her job, she you know,

644
00:46:35.239 --> 00:46:38.360
literally walked all of these trails and she was like

645
00:46:38.559 --> 00:46:44.079
the best and planted trees like in a volume that

646
00:46:44.199 --> 00:46:49.880
was just like insane. They broke down the numbers and

647
00:46:49.920 --> 00:46:53.480
I was just like, how was that physically possible to

648
00:46:53.519 --> 00:46:57.639
plant that many trees in one day? Oh my gosh.

649
00:46:58.559 --> 00:47:03.159
And I don't think that was necessarily her dream job.

650
00:47:03.440 --> 00:47:06.159
But she loved it and she felt passionate about it,

651
00:47:06.519 --> 00:47:10.599
and they talked about how she was an artist. The

652
00:47:10.679 --> 00:47:16.440
really sad thing is that a lot of the people

653
00:47:16.679 --> 00:47:20.239
that were gonna talk about or some of these younger,

654
00:47:20.800 --> 00:47:25.199
you know, women and girls, a lot of them probably

655
00:47:25.280 --> 00:47:29.840
never were old enough or had the opportunity to hold

656
00:47:29.880 --> 00:47:33.400
down a job that they could feel passionate about, let alone,

657
00:47:33.480 --> 00:47:35.719
I mean having a job at all. Some of them

658
00:47:35.719 --> 00:47:41.719
were like fourteen fifteen sixteen. Wow, in a reading about love,

659
00:47:42.079 --> 00:47:47.920
you may run into obstacles, limitations, or disappointments.

660
00:47:47.440 --> 00:47:50.159
Like the family love. You know, That's what I'm thinking of.

661
00:47:50.719 --> 00:47:56.280
Yeah, And I know we've we've actually gotten this card

662
00:47:56.320 --> 00:48:00.320
a few times recently, just got it like, yeah, So

663
00:48:00.639 --> 00:48:02.599
I'm not going to read the description on the card

664
00:48:02.599 --> 00:48:07.159
because I don't think it really adds anything. But it's

665
00:48:07.400 --> 00:48:12.159
just it's kind of insane because I didn't I didn't

666
00:48:12.239 --> 00:48:16.360
immediately think, oh, Ace of Cups, Yeah that really makes sense.

667
00:48:16.440 --> 00:48:18.920
But holy shit, that really makes sense.

668
00:48:19.800 --> 00:48:22.239
Well just the imagery too of you know, the cup

669
00:48:23.159 --> 00:48:28.880
running over, like we've talked about, that relates to how

670
00:48:28.960 --> 00:48:32.519
much extra money they had. Their cup was running over

671
00:48:32.840 --> 00:48:33.960
with funds.

672
00:48:34.559 --> 00:48:36.760
That's a really good point. I didn't even think about

673
00:48:36.800 --> 00:48:40.960
that they literally had all of those excess funds that

674
00:48:41.000 --> 00:48:44.000
they you know, then don't needed to try to help

675
00:48:44.119 --> 00:48:48.320
the other people. How crazy is it that there's freaking

676
00:48:48.360 --> 00:48:49.280
tear drops on it?

677
00:48:49.880 --> 00:48:53.639
Oh like we literally said that, but like kind of

678
00:48:53.679 --> 00:48:54.360
as a joke.

679
00:48:55.199 --> 00:48:57.760
Yeah, I was like, there's no way we won't that

680
00:48:57.800 --> 00:48:58.519
won't happen.

681
00:49:00.400 --> 00:49:03.280
Like, I want to just google Ace of Cups because

682
00:49:03.320 --> 00:49:07.199
we've had the same you know, the same book that

683
00:49:07.239 --> 00:49:08.360
we've been reading from.

684
00:49:08.760 --> 00:49:12.360
Yeah, you know what, I can also grab the traditional

685
00:49:12.440 --> 00:49:13.320
Tarot book two.

686
00:49:14.039 --> 00:49:17.079
So this is the biddy one, the bitty tarot that

687
00:49:17.119 --> 00:49:19.519
we like or I like.

688
00:49:20.360 --> 00:49:24.719
I don't like it too. It's a tero bitty. That's

689
00:49:24.760 --> 00:49:28.719
one of our Patreon tears it is. Yeah, you know,

690
00:49:28.920 --> 00:49:33.679
and I'm just realizing that we forgot to say for

691
00:49:33.800 --> 00:49:39.760
regular stream, we're going to put out the episode two

692
00:49:39.880 --> 00:49:43.360
of High Wave Tiers next week. Patreon you're going to

693
00:49:43.400 --> 00:49:49.280
get episode two later this week, yay, and then Patreon

694
00:49:49.360 --> 00:49:53.239
you because you're getting both of them immediately. We don't

695
00:49:53.280 --> 00:49:56.679
want you to not have content for that following week,

696
00:49:57.239 --> 00:50:00.800
so you're going to be getting a Patreon on Bonus

697
00:50:01.800 --> 00:50:07.760
listener style story episode. So, yeah, I was gonna I'm

698
00:50:07.800 --> 00:50:10.800
looking at you. Am I allowed to say that? I think?

699
00:50:10.920 --> 00:50:11.000
So?

700
00:50:11.320 --> 00:50:14.199
Yeah, Okay, Yeah, I'm just looking to you for approval,

701
00:50:14.280 --> 00:50:15.400
I think so. Okay.

702
00:50:15.639 --> 00:50:19.360
So the way it so, it describes the card kind

703
00:50:19.360 --> 00:50:22.559
of like we've heard before with the hand holding the

704
00:50:22.599 --> 00:50:25.400
cup out of the clouds. It says, a symbol of

705
00:50:25.440 --> 00:50:31.679
your awareness and spiritual energy influence, which that's kind of interesting,

706
00:50:33.400 --> 00:50:37.280
like their awareness and their influence be kind of the

707
00:50:37.280 --> 00:50:40.559
family of Nicole, Nicole's fan.

708
00:50:41.000 --> 00:50:45.079
Okay, well, and I think that for it's not something

709
00:50:45.119 --> 00:50:48.880
that will probably go super in depth on, but to

710
00:50:49.079 --> 00:50:52.760
a lot of the other women and girls and their

711
00:50:52.840 --> 00:50:57.320
families that are part of the indigenous community, there's such

712
00:50:57.320 --> 00:51:02.320
a connection to their spirit virtuality that that's kind of

713
00:51:02.360 --> 00:51:06.280
interesting to be to see that coming in.

714
00:51:06.400 --> 00:51:09.800
Yeah, and then it goes on to say below the

715
00:51:09.880 --> 00:51:14.079
hand is a vast sea covered with lotus blossoms, signifying

716
00:51:14.239 --> 00:51:19.599
the awakening of the human spirit. A dove descends towards

717
00:51:19.639 --> 00:51:23.199
the cup, a symbol of divine love flowing through a

718
00:51:23.239 --> 00:51:29.920
subconscious mind and conscious awareness. And that was just the

719
00:51:30.000 --> 00:51:32.719
description of the card. So I'm going to scroll to

720
00:51:32.760 --> 00:51:35.880
the reverse. You can see if you see anything in there,

721
00:51:35.880 --> 00:51:39.159
and I'm going to read this quickly too. Okay in

722
00:51:39.239 --> 00:51:39.880
my head.

723
00:51:41.039 --> 00:51:45.320
Oh okay, so go okay, so cool. So I want

724
00:51:45.320 --> 00:51:48.440
to read from this one because it is really short.

725
00:51:48.599 --> 00:51:52.559
It's the pictorial key to the tari that comes with

726
00:51:52.840 --> 00:51:58.559
the traditional deck. I want to read both sides because

727
00:51:58.599 --> 00:52:00.679
I think it's interesting to see the flip of it

728
00:52:01.559 --> 00:52:15.239
for this case. So divinatory meanings House of the true heart, joy, content, abode, nourishment, abundance, fertility,

729
00:52:16.800 --> 00:52:23.559
and that's in the upright. In the reverse it says

730
00:52:23.880 --> 00:52:34.119
house of the false Heart, mutation, instability, and revolution and revolution.

731
00:52:34.400 --> 00:52:41.239
Let me tell you that the revolution piece kind of

732
00:52:41.280 --> 00:52:44.079
gives me a little bit of chills as I think

733
00:52:44.079 --> 00:52:49.719
about going into part two, because we do have some

734
00:52:49.880 --> 00:52:59.159
information about some revolution level shit. Wow, that's crazy.

735
00:52:59.360 --> 00:53:03.159
Yeah, we should break out the little book more often

736
00:53:03.199 --> 00:53:04.800
and just see what it says, you know.

737
00:53:05.119 --> 00:53:09.199
Yeah, just all of the books. I do really like

738
00:53:09.360 --> 00:53:13.920
to look at it a little bit deeper. Yeah, me too,

739
00:53:14.840 --> 00:53:19.079
because I think the sometimes the modern witch taro looks

740
00:53:19.119 --> 00:53:22.599
really different from the traditional and I think this one's

741
00:53:23.239 --> 00:53:26.440
really pretty close. It's got the.

742
00:53:26.360 --> 00:53:31.239
Dove this well oh gosh, Okay, Well, I was just saying,

743
00:53:31.320 --> 00:53:33.840
I'm reading, like, okay, I'll just read this whole paragraph.

744
00:53:34.000 --> 00:53:34.360
Okay.

745
00:53:34.719 --> 00:53:36.960
The ace of cups reverse may be a sign that

746
00:53:37.000 --> 00:53:40.480
you are repressing your emotions, not wanting to express yourself

747
00:53:40.480 --> 00:53:43.840
fully to the outside world. You have your reasons for

748
00:53:43.960 --> 00:53:47.320
keeping your feelings close, not wanting others to know what's

749
00:53:47.360 --> 00:53:51.559
going on inside. You may feel embarrassed or afraid of

750
00:53:51.559 --> 00:53:54.920
what might happen if you were to express your emotions.

751
00:53:55.639 --> 00:53:58.480
You may worry that if you allow your feelings to flow,

752
00:53:58.639 --> 00:54:02.159
they might turn into an overwhelming flood that can't be

753
00:54:02.280 --> 00:54:06.519
switched off. However, be careful that you do not create

754
00:54:06.559 --> 00:54:10.039
an internal blockage by repressing how you feel. If you

755
00:54:10.079 --> 00:54:13.440
are not ready to share your emotions, that's okay. You

756
00:54:13.519 --> 00:54:17.679
can find ways to release them privately through journaling and

757
00:54:17.719 --> 00:54:24.559
creative projects, movement or screaming. Maybe starting a movement right,

758
00:54:24.800 --> 00:54:28.840
but this one or screaming your frustration and anger out

759
00:54:28.880 --> 00:54:29.599
in the car.

760
00:54:30.199 --> 00:54:35.039
Oh my wow. I feel like that was what Caitlin

761
00:54:35.199 --> 00:54:40.119
was doing. There's a couple of stories that I'm not

762
00:54:40.239 --> 00:54:47.320
gonna get into, but suppressing the emotions I'm letting that

763
00:54:47.480 --> 00:54:50.239
overwhelm you. The fact that it talks about a literal

764
00:54:50.239 --> 00:54:55.400
flood when we're talking about a highway of tears. Yeah,

765
00:54:55.519 --> 00:54:59.639
screaming in the car too. Wow, Okay, there's literally in

766
00:54:59.679 --> 00:55:03.360
the b There's a couple of different stories that that's

767
00:55:04.000 --> 00:55:09.719
I'm wow, I'm fucked up right now.

768
00:55:09.800 --> 00:55:12.119
And the fact that it was saying like that you

769
00:55:12.719 --> 00:55:16.000
might be embarrassed by your emotions like that reminded me

770
00:55:16.039 --> 00:55:18.599
too of Nichole's family of how like they were kind

771
00:55:18.599 --> 00:55:20.519
of embarrassed well.

772
00:55:20.400 --> 00:55:27.559
And I think back to some of the families of

773
00:55:27.599 --> 00:55:30.280
the indigenous women, some of the things that they said

774
00:55:30.320 --> 00:55:34.400
about how angry they were and how hard they had

775
00:55:34.400 --> 00:55:38.159
to try to like make sure that they were approaching

776
00:55:38.239 --> 00:55:42.920
these people that were supposed to be helping them in

777
00:55:42.960 --> 00:55:48.199
a way that hopefully they would actually help them, and

778
00:55:48.239 --> 00:55:50.960
how frustrating it was to just like feel like you

779
00:55:51.119 --> 00:55:55.480
have to be nice to this person when they're not

780
00:55:55.639 --> 00:56:00.400
doing their job. And they're not helping you and I wow,

781
00:56:00.960 --> 00:56:05.199
oh wow, okay, it works in a lot of ways. Yeah,

782
00:56:06.960 --> 00:56:11.199
oh my gosh, all right, you guys we did. I'm

783
00:56:11.239 --> 00:56:15.280
really excited to come back for part two. Yeah. I

784
00:56:15.320 --> 00:56:19.599
cannot believe it said movement and revolution. Yeah in that

785
00:56:20.400 --> 00:56:25.960
holy shit. Wow. All right, you guys. We're gonna wrap

786
00:56:26.000 --> 00:56:29.800
for today, but we'll be back. Have a creepy day.

787
00:56:30.519 --> 00:56:36.000
See you next Tuesday or sooner. If you're a Patreon yay,

788
00:56:37.199 --> 00:56:39.400
or never if you're Robert Picton.

789
00:56:39.519 --> 00:56:43.639
Oh it was like, if you're not listening, yeah, you.

790
00:56:43.719 --> 00:56:47.360
Showed be so for all of you that are listening.

791
00:56:47.519 --> 00:56:50.679
If you have any true crime or paranormal stories that

792
00:56:50.719 --> 00:56:55.280
you want us to share, maybe with the whole Pacific Northwest, Yes,

793
00:56:55.400 --> 00:56:58.280
we would love to read them on the pod. Yes

794
00:56:58.480 --> 00:57:03.719
we will read them out, not just in our heads. Yes,

795
00:57:05.239 --> 00:57:07.840
they don't have to be from the Pacific Northwest. If

796
00:57:07.880 --> 00:57:12.960
you would like to share, email us at PNW hauntsand

797
00:57:13.159 --> 00:57:17.039
Homicides at gmail dot com. It's all spelled out, no

798
00:57:17.199 --> 00:57:20.719
special characters, super duper easyps.

799
00:57:21.599 --> 00:57:25.639
Follow us on Instagram and Facebook. Same thing as the

800
00:57:25.719 --> 00:57:30.920
email at PNW Hanson Homicides all spelled out. No special characters.

801
00:57:31.599 --> 00:57:34.800
Please also rate and review us on whatever platform you're

802
00:57:34.840 --> 00:57:37.840
listening to, and check out our stories on social media

803
00:57:37.960 --> 00:57:43.280
because our meme game is hot. Agreed and if you

804
00:57:43.400 --> 00:57:47.079
agree like Caitlin, you can also find us on Patreon

805
00:57:47.239 --> 00:57:48.199
and support the show.

806
00:57:48.840 --> 00:58:33.760
Bitchen, I'll preface this next section we know what Kitlin

807
00:58:33.880 --> 00:58:34.559
is thinking about.

808
00:58:39.719 --> 00:58:43.920
Thanks for listening. Visit sinspod dot co, slash subscribe for

809
00:58:44.000 --> 00:58:48.199
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810
00:58:48.400 --> 00:58:52.079
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811
00:58:52.159 --> 00:58:55.800
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812
00:58:55.880 --> 00:58:58.480
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813
00:58:58.760 --> 00:59:02.880
You can contact us at Questions at sens Andsurvivors dot com.

814
00:59:03.039 --> 00:59:05.360
If you are someone you know as affected by domestic

815
00:59:05.400 --> 00:59:08.679
violence or needs support, please reach out to local resources

816
00:59:08.760 --> 00:59:11.679
or the National Domestic Violence Hotline. A list of resources

817
00:59:11.719 --> 00:59:14.920
is available on our website, Sins and Survivors dot com.

818
00:59:15.360 --> 00:59:18.760
Sins and Survivors, a Las Vegas true crime podcast, is research,

819
00:59:18.800 --> 00:59:21.760
written and produced by your hosts Sean and John. The

820
00:59:21.840 --> 00:59:24.280
information shared in this podcast is accurate at the time

821
00:59:24.320 --> 00:59:27.719
of recording. If you have questions concerns, or corrections please

822
00:59:27.719 --> 00:59:30.480
email us. Links to source material for this episode can

823
00:59:30.519 --> 00:59:34.440
be found on our website SINS and Survivors dot com.

824
00:59:34.679 --> 00:59:37.679
The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely

825
00:59:37.760 --> 00:59:42.079
those of the podcast creators, hosts, and their guests. All

826
00:59:42.079 --> 00:59:46.000
individuals are innocent until proven guilty. This content does not

827
00:59:46.159 --> 00:59:50.199
constitute legal advice. Listeners are encouraged to consult with legal

828
00:59:50.239 --> 00:59:51.400
professionals for guidance.