July 27, 2024

True Crime and Paranormal Festival Recap

True Crime and Paranormal Festival Recap
True Crime and Paranormal Festival Recap
Sins & Survivors: A Las Vegas True Crime Podcast
True Crime and Paranormal Festival Recap

We recently attended the True Crime and Paranormal Festival in Denver held at the Westminster Marriott, and we wanted to recap and talk about all the fun times we had, the new people we met, and the people we REconnected with. 

It's such a great...

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Season 1

We recently attended the True Crime and Paranormal Festival in Denver held at the Westminster Marriott, and we wanted to recap and talk about all the fun times we had, the new people we met, and the people we REconnected with.

It's such a great event filled with advocacy, education, true crime, and some education, and we recommend you buy tickets for TCPF 2025 being held in Boston! We'll be there.

#TCPF2024

Let us know what you think about the episode

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WEBVTT

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To listen ad free visit simspod dot com slash subscribe

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starting at two ninety nine a month. You'll also get

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access to our exclusive bonus content episodes when you joined

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through Patreon or Apple subscriptions. Thanks for supporting the show. Hello,

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and welcome to our non subscriber bonus episode. Hey everyone, Hello,

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So we wanted to take a moment and drop a

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bonus episode for our subscribers and talk to you a

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little bit about the true crime and paranormal festival that

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we went to. I'm gonna say last weekend. Was it

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last weekend? No weekend before?

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Oh gosh? Yes?

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July weekend is July fourteenth, Yes, thirteenth, fourteenth in Denver. Yes,

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and we're going to talk a little bit about the experience.

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It was our first time doing a podcast festival, as

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as podcasters ass.

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And this is not just for subscribers.

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I want to say that right, This is not just

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I say that you did.

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He said it again.

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I said it again. Oh my god, this is why

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we are scripted.

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Yes, we wanted to do a bonus episode, not just

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for our subscribers, but for everyone because we came home

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so jazzed after the festival, and we were just talking

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about it again today.

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And I'm still jazzed China, and.

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John was like, Hey, maybe we should just record so

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we can kind of get it all out there and

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promote the fact that Boston TCPF twenty twenty five will

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be here before we know it.

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Buy your tickets now. They're selling fast.

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They are selling fast.

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We say that because we bought them already. Yes, so

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they are selling fast.

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It's going to be July eighteenth through the twentieth in Boston,

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in Boston, Boston on the which sure you told me.

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I think it's not Sha. No, I don't even know.

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I think it's not not not not shaw. I am

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from Boston. Have I said that before?

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John is from Boston.

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Yeah, so I'm excited tuning in. Yeah. If you've never

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joined us before, you're probably very confused. You're like, this

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podcast is not well named. We will not be covering

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a case right now. This is just a bone.

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I mean, I guess we'll be talking about it. We

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might be talking a little bit about a bunch of cases.

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Because we did hear a lot, a lot from so

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many wonderful people, so many passionate creators who are out

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there advocating for victims, advocating for families, trying to change

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the true crime landscape, and we were just so excited

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to be a part of it.

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It was amazing, It was so incredible, so many great people.

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So why don't you tell tell the people out in

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the world podcast land about your panel, Because Sean was

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on a panel, I was on.

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A panel, Lany Hobbs, who is one of the masterminds

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behind the whole TCPF Lisa being the other one, Lisa

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being the other and I'm sure there was so many

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folks that work so hard to bring this all together.

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But I got to reach out to Leaney, I got

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to Steve. I know that the panel was live streamed,

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so I'm hoping that there is a recording of it somewhere.

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I'm hoping because we'd love to share that audio with

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you because it was such an incredible experience. We had

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some of the most amazing podcasters in the business.

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We had who was there tell the people.

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Haley Gray, who is a podcast researcher and she has

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her own podcast researching course that you can take called DCPT.

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Yeah, I know, DCP True Crime Podcast Training.

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Yes, the True Crime Podcast Training, and it was Actually

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I've talked about the course before, I believe on the podcast.

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It was incredible. We learned so much from being a

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part of it. So we had Hailey Gray. We also

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had the team behind Navigating Advocacy. They're amazing, Whitney and Melissa.

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Whitney and Melissa do so much for families. They go

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on searches, they do I think they call them Honkin waves,

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where they like, you know, stand on the corner with

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signs and just try and support families. They're just out

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there doing so much good work and helping so many people.

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And again they're super smart, you know, working so hard

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to make sure that true crime content continues to improve.

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So we had them on the panel. And lastly, two

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of the biggest.

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True crime are you talking about yourself?

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Yes, myself I was there as well.

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And then there's another big name.

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The team behind I think not what Ellen and Joey.

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Yes, Ellen was not on the panel.

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Ellen was on my left the whole time.

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It's amazing.

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It was really really amazing. Ellen and Joey. They have

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so much passion and compassion for people, and they just

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talk so much about how.

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They happy to hear that they can take that that

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passion and come passion thing. I like that. You can

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have that for free, we talked.

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So the topic of the panel was ethical storytelling and

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being mindful about the language that we use and using

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proper terminology for things because we don't want to re

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traumatize people. We don't want to stigmatize people. So that

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was basically the topic was how there are a lot

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of phrases we use in American English that are either

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inherently violent idioms like shoot you an email, I'll take

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a stab at it, or have come from some of

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the ugliest parts of American history and are rooted in racism,

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and that we should just erase from our vocabulary. You'd

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be surprised how many phrases like what was the one

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we talked about, cakewalk? Cakewalk has those racist origins. Yeah,

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so those were And then also when you talk about people,

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you want to be careful not to stigmatize them, so

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just kind of choosing not describing where someone lives as

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like the ghetto, or you know, calling someone an addict

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or other words for sex worker, you know, those kinds

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of things we talked about, and just being respectful for

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families because you know they're listening and if you truly

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want to help them, you want to be respectful. So

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it's just an incredible panel. It came together beautifully. It

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was wonderful. I was so honored that that Haley and

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Melissa and Whitney and Ellen and Joey all agreed to

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be a part of it. And I said, I'll talk

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to Laney again and we'll see if we get that audio,

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because I really would love to share it with all

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of you.

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That would be amazing. Yeah, we can tag them everybody

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in it. Yeah, they can share it.

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Yeah, and then everyone can learn from it, because I

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think there's something for everyone in there, even if you're

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not a content creator.

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Yep.

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So yeah, I mentioned I mentioned Kendrick Lamar at.

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One point, you did? I did? Kendrick Lamar out there

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dropping truth bombs is musical truth bombs.

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So what do you want to talk about?

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Net The second one in our list. I want to

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leave till the end because because it is the it

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was the final the session of the weekend, and so

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we'll talk about that in a minute. But we did

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go out with our with the TCPT folks, with the

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team between and behind True Crime Podcast training. It is

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the website, by the way, is True Crime podcast Training

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dot com. Just as a reminder all written out, and

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we really recommend that if you're considering starting a podcast,

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or if you're just interested about how the process.

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Works, or if you want to do podcast research for

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other podcasts, because there is there are podcasts out there

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who can pay you, and they will pay you for

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your research, So.

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If you want to do that, you should definitely check

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it out. But we went with the alumni from the

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from from the podcast Training, which was awesome, and Haley

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and Andrea on Andrea's thirtieth birthday. Yes, should I say

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it was the thirtieth? Should we? Should we take that

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art on post?

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That's all good? Yeah, she's very It was amazing. We

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kind of had an am I the asshole moment because

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we were waiting for a table large enough to see

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us all, and the people who had that largest table

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in the restaurant were taking their sweet time watching UFC fighting,

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and even though their plates had been cleared and their

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bill had been paid, they were just loitering there in

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the restaurant. We were standing there like salivating.

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Waiting, starving.

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That was great, And then didn't it turn out that

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our server that she she's a true crime fan.

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She was, and they gave us free appetizers, which was nice.

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Oh yeah, that was nice.

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Yeah, so they made it right.

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So shout out to the b JS by the Denver Marriotte. Yeah,

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I wish I knew exactly their address, but great, great staff,

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and it was a great dinner.

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Yeah.

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I talked about Melissa and Whitney. I kind of want

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to gush about them some more because they are just

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incredible and it was so great seeing them and spending

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time with them.

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And then what other panels did we see?

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Oh my god, we saw so many. The first one

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we saw was actually about a Netflix documentary that I

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watched the first episode of. I think there's like three

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episodes in the documentary. It's called the program cons Cults

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and Kidnapping, And I watched the first one by myself

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and I was like, John, I want John to watch

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this with me. So we got to see the panel

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with Ashley from that So Fucked Up podcast with two

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of the filmmakers that well, because it was a documentary,

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so there was the filmmaker Catherine and then one of

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the women who when she was a teenager was actually

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a resident in the program and the documentary is about

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I guess what I would call a reform school. But

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it was just a horrific torture device for teenagers who allegedly,

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you know, couldn't go to regular school, were committing such horrible,

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heinous acts that they had to live in a prison

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like and repressive environment. It was awful. The youth who

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lived there were tortured, psychologically tortured. So it was just

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it was great. I was glad. I'm glad that Ashley

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had them on their panel and you could learn more

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about about what went into making the documentary and what

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the women's experience was when they were younger, and.

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It really was pretty messed up.

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It was really scary.

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I mean, I hadn't watched the documentary. I still haven't

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actually watched it, but I am going to do that.

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And but what I heard shook me that this actually existed.

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I had no idea.

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Existed, and parents paid money for it.

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Unbelievable.

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It's terrifying. Well, and then we had like our creator mixer.

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That was all Friday, but then the keynote Saturday morning.

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Not a dry eye in the house. Sarah Joorney talking

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about her sister Melissa.

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And if you haven't heard that story.

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Voices for Justice, you have to listen.

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She tells it over she in the session. She told

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it like very quickly, like she hit all the main points.

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She shared so much about her sister and her experience. Sarah,

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we love you. If you're listening, Sarah, we love you. You

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have our support. It was great getting to know you

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better and chat with you, so we can't wait to

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see you again at Actually, our next thing is Advocacy

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Con which is coming up in Indianapolis in March, so

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we'll see you then, Sarah.

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And if you're listening and you're not Sarah, on the

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off chance, then you should go listen Sarah. Most of

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you who are not Sarah, I mean maybe your name

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is Sarah, but you're not Sarahttorney and that's okay too.

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And if that's the case, you should go listen to

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Sarahttorney's podcast and listen to the first season. Definitely an

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amazing listen and you will not believe it.

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The next thing we went to, I believe was Arlene

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Arlene Harbison, Leon Laurelis's niece and Bethany hassel Vladi Castle's sister,

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together with Haley Gray and Kristen Ceevie from Murder She Told,

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And they were just talking about the new project that

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they worked on together where they made a guidebook for

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families and how to work with the media and podcasts

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when you are a victim of a horrific situation like

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Arlene and Bethany. Are you all? We shared Arlene's episode

237
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about Leon and her podcast The Box in the Basement

238
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on our feed that she does with her partner Leah.

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And we've shared vladeck story before, but you can always

240
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find out out more if you surge. Flateck has been

241
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missing for a few years now, and Bethany would love

242
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to get some leads and get some answers on that,

243
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just like Arlene would love to have answers about Leon.

244
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So this again was another very moving session because there's

245
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no way to go to TCPF and not be moved

246
00:13:17.279 --> 00:13:20.480
by the stories shared by families and advocates.

247
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Was the next one we went to the Laura Norton.

248
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Yeah, all right, so that was also an awesome one.

249
00:13:27.639 --> 00:13:29.480
Go ahead, Yeah. The next one we went to was

250
00:13:29.960 --> 00:13:33.679
with Laura Norton and doctor Amy Michael, who I was

251
00:13:33.720 --> 00:13:36.360
too intimidated to talk to I know. I was so intimidated.

252
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I kept seeing them and I was like, I was like,

253
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we wrote in.

254
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The Elevator with doctor Amy, and I.

255
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Was like, yeah, so podcast you're a scientist.

256
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Laura had a book come out Gosh earlier this year

257
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called Lay Them to Rest, that.

258
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Is which we have both read.

259
00:13:56.600 --> 00:13:59.240
We both read. It's an incredible piece of nonfiction about

260
00:14:00.080 --> 00:14:04.159
the story behind Anah Jane Doe and how she worked

261
00:14:04.159 --> 00:14:08.840
with doctor Amy and other forensic scientists forensic artists to

262
00:14:09.039 --> 00:14:12.639
help identify Ana Jane Doe. There's a ton of good

263
00:14:12.639 --> 00:14:15.200
stuff in there about the science behind all of that work.

264
00:14:16.639 --> 00:14:17.840
So that was fascinating.

265
00:14:18.039 --> 00:14:20.320
Yeah. So they were able to talk more about some

266
00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:25.759
of the techniques that are used in identifying unidentified decedents.

267
00:14:25.960 --> 00:14:27.039
Yeah, that was really cool.

268
00:14:28.240 --> 00:14:30.600
This is another one that I made a note that

269
00:14:30.639 --> 00:14:32.279
you went to that I didn't get to go to.

270
00:14:33.639 --> 00:14:36.600
Oh yes, the one about the Denver Airport. That was

271
00:14:36.639 --> 00:14:40.559
so much fun. It was with Justin from Generation Why

272
00:14:40.720 --> 00:14:43.960
and John Lorden. That was really fun. I did not

273
00:14:44.159 --> 00:14:46.720
know what to expect. I had no idea what the

274
00:14:46.720 --> 00:14:49.159
deal was with the Denver Airport before I went, But

275
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now I know.

276
00:14:51.039 --> 00:14:54.559
This was an example of one of the paranormal type, right, yeah,

277
00:14:54.600 --> 00:14:58.200
because some of we lean towards the true crime sit side,

278
00:14:58.279 --> 00:15:03.799
but there are paranormal sessions as well. Lani actually made

279
00:15:03.879 --> 00:15:06.240
Lane and Lisa made the decision to kind of split

280
00:15:06.279 --> 00:15:11.080
the podcast festival in half. So the next year there's

281
00:15:11.120 --> 00:15:12.519
going to be a true crime version and there's going

282
00:15:12.600 --> 00:15:15.759
to be a paranormal version called Behind the Veil, So

283
00:15:15.799 --> 00:15:18.320
there'll be a separate paranormal one this but this year.

284
00:15:18.480 --> 00:15:20.960
So yeah, so this was one of the paranormal sessions

285
00:15:20.960 --> 00:15:24.159
about the Denver Airport. What is one thing you remember

286
00:15:24.200 --> 00:15:24.600
from that?

287
00:15:25.320 --> 00:15:30.240
So there's so many things, but the when the Denver

288
00:15:30.320 --> 00:15:35.759
Airport was built, apparently they built this luggage moving system

289
00:15:35.879 --> 00:15:38.320
underneath it, and it was going to be just a

290
00:15:39.320 --> 00:15:43.320
like a very complex web of like not moving sidewalks

291
00:15:43.320 --> 00:15:46.279
that'll conveyor belt the conveyor belts, right, and it was

292
00:15:46.320 --> 00:15:49.720
supposed to be a highly efficient way of getting luggage

293
00:15:50.039 --> 00:15:53.759
on and off of airplanes and what have you. And

294
00:15:54.320 --> 00:15:59.600
it was like extremely expensive, incredibly expensive and did not

295
00:15:59.720 --> 00:16:02.480
work at all because it turns out that there are

296
00:16:02.519 --> 00:16:06.960
constantly changes and there are gate changes, and so it

297
00:16:07.120 --> 00:16:09.879
just wasn't something that was actually viable, but the tunnels

298
00:16:09.919 --> 00:16:12.279
are still there, so they will like drive around the

299
00:16:12.279 --> 00:16:16.120
tunnels basically and move luggage around that way underneath the airport.

300
00:16:16.200 --> 00:16:20.159
But one of the things, one of the conspiracies, not

301
00:16:20.399 --> 00:16:25.480
sure why, is that there are like many levels underneath

302
00:16:25.480 --> 00:16:29.639
the Denver Airport. That the Denver Airport is a like

303
00:16:29.679 --> 00:16:32.480
a fallout shelter for rich people. So when.

304
00:16:33.840 --> 00:16:35.759
Say hell mouth, it might.

305
00:16:35.600 --> 00:16:38.000
Be a hell mouth too. But it went like when

306
00:16:38.080 --> 00:16:40.039
when it goes down, that the rich people are going

307
00:16:40.120 --> 00:16:44.080
to go there immediately to the airport and yeah, they're

308
00:16:44.080 --> 00:16:48.440
gonna go to the airport and live in this underground bunker. Hey,

309
00:16:48.559 --> 00:16:52.279
okay type thing. Good luck to them, Yeah, we wish

310
00:16:52.360 --> 00:16:54.279
them the best. And the other thing was the if

311
00:16:54.320 --> 00:16:59.159
you look at the overhead shot of the airport, so

312
00:16:59.559 --> 00:17:03.440
the way the airport is designed, it's designed to accommodate

313
00:17:03.480 --> 00:17:06.160
a high volume of air traffic as you might expect,

314
00:17:06.359 --> 00:17:08.839
even more so than like you know, Harry Reid is

315
00:17:08.880 --> 00:17:12.119
pretty this high volume. But you're can be coming from

316
00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:14.319
the north to south, the east, or the west. So

317
00:17:14.359 --> 00:17:16.880
you can have four planes landing at any one time

318
00:17:17.319 --> 00:17:19.640
in Denver, one from the north, one from the south,

319
00:17:19.640 --> 00:17:21.480
one f one from the west. So if you look

320
00:17:21.519 --> 00:17:25.519
at it from overhead and you kind of ignore some

321
00:17:25.640 --> 00:17:29.640
extra lines in the it looks a little like a swastika,

322
00:17:30.519 --> 00:17:36.880
So so it looks sort of like so, but I'm

323
00:17:36.880 --> 00:17:39.519
with Justin, And what Justin said was like, I'm not

324
00:17:39.559 --> 00:17:42.640
sure what the conspiracy is here, Like if I'm not

325
00:17:42.680 --> 00:17:46.400
sure if that's meant to convey to Nazi aliens that

326
00:17:46.440 --> 00:17:49.680
they should land here, this is the airport they should

327
00:17:49.759 --> 00:17:54.960
land at. It was not clear. But yeah, they're also

328
00:17:56.759 --> 00:17:58.839
I'm not sure this is really a conspiracy. But there

329
00:17:58.960 --> 00:18:03.359
were when we were walking around the airport leaving. Did

330
00:18:03.400 --> 00:18:04.400
you notice the gargoyle?

331
00:18:04.519 --> 00:18:06.480
I did notice there was a gar So there's an east.

332
00:18:06.359 --> 00:18:09.559
Side gargoyle in a west side gargoyle. I guess. I'm

333
00:18:09.599 --> 00:18:11.920
not sure. Oh and they are they are in luggage

334
00:18:11.960 --> 00:18:13.759
like they it's like they popped out of luggage.

335
00:18:13.880 --> 00:18:14.559
Yes, yes, I think.

336
00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:18.119
And at one point there was a talking gargoyle. I think.

337
00:18:20.960 --> 00:18:22.920
I feel like we have a conversation about the talking

338
00:18:22.920 --> 00:18:26.680
gargoyle while we were walking around and how the gargoyle

339
00:18:26.759 --> 00:18:28.799
used to talk to people and now it doesn't really

340
00:18:28.839 --> 00:18:31.799
talk anymore. It just talks like every twice an hour.

341
00:18:31.920 --> 00:18:34.680
Or something. It's like an animatronic weird. It's not real

342
00:18:34.759 --> 00:18:35.440
talking gargoyle.

343
00:18:35.480 --> 00:18:36.680
Why would they put that in the airport.

344
00:18:36.839 --> 00:18:39.599
It's just as you would say, it's it's not a

345
00:18:39.599 --> 00:18:41.559
real clown. It's just a person dressed as a clown.

346
00:18:43.079 --> 00:18:44.799
It's not a real gargoyle.

347
00:18:44.920 --> 00:18:47.599
Just a person dressed as a gargoyle. So, yeah, that

348
00:18:47.640 --> 00:18:49.240
was really fun. I really enjoyed that session.

349
00:18:50.319 --> 00:18:50.960
That's awesome.

350
00:18:53.279 --> 00:18:55.480
Oh I missed this next one with Sarah Turney and

351
00:18:55.519 --> 00:18:56.160
Julie Murray.

352
00:18:56.359 --> 00:19:00.000
You mean I you missed like the first part of it. Yeah,

353
00:19:00.160 --> 00:19:04.039
uh yeah. So Sarah and Julie Murray did a session

354
00:19:04.079 --> 00:19:07.960
that was very specific to some of the online harassment

355
00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:12.240
they have faced over the years. And it's actually I

356
00:19:12.279 --> 00:19:15.200
really enjoyed that session because I had seen Sarah and

357
00:19:15.279 --> 00:19:19.000
Julie at Crime Con and i'd Las Vegas in twenty

358
00:19:19.039 --> 00:19:21.640
twenty two and I saw them. That's kind of when

359
00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:26.319
I realized how important ethical true crime is. And it

360
00:19:26.400 --> 00:19:28.599
never would have occurred to me that Sarah and Julie,

361
00:19:28.680 --> 00:19:32.839
who were dealing with such serious situations, would be subjected

362
00:19:32.880 --> 00:19:39.160
to such terrifying harassment just for basically existing and having

363
00:19:39.240 --> 00:19:41.160
bad luck, like.

364
00:19:41.480 --> 00:19:44.319
And for being related to a missing person.

365
00:19:44.519 --> 00:19:46.880
Yeah to yeah, two people who are missing.

366
00:19:47.039 --> 00:19:50.839
Yeah, I still I do not understand that. I mean

367
00:19:50.960 --> 00:19:54.720
understand what's happening, But I just.

368
00:19:53.400 --> 00:19:57.599
I get a hobby. Yeah, get a hobby, get a life,

369
00:19:57.680 --> 00:20:00.160
or as Julie would say, you know, work on your empathy,

370
00:20:00.400 --> 00:20:00.680
you know.

371
00:20:01.000 --> 00:20:04.720
Yeah, So that one was really interesting.

372
00:20:05.240 --> 00:20:08.000
Yeah, if you ever have the chance to hear Sarah

373
00:20:08.079 --> 00:20:11.440
or Julie talk, they're amazing speakers. They're they're so engaging,

374
00:20:11.559 --> 00:20:14.599
and they've they just opened their heart out and they

375
00:20:14.720 --> 00:20:16.720
just share heart up and they just share so much

376
00:20:16.799 --> 00:20:19.680
out of their life.

377
00:20:20.000 --> 00:20:22.319
So in the next one, we went to we were

378
00:20:22.400 --> 00:20:25.839
late for this one, The Many Faces of Luri Dan.

379
00:20:26.720 --> 00:20:29.400
I did not know anything about me, neither Lauri or

380
00:20:29.400 --> 00:20:29.960
this case.

381
00:20:30.559 --> 00:20:37.079
But Nina instead from Already Gone and Gary Howard Gary

382
00:20:37.160 --> 00:20:41.079
Nina did a great job telling the story of Laurie Dan,

383
00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:44.759
a young woman who seemingly went through some kind of

384
00:20:46.759 --> 00:20:49.039
She started showing signs that she was having some kind

385
00:20:49.039 --> 00:20:51.319
of mental breakdown. She was really struggling, and the people

386
00:20:51.319 --> 00:20:54.720
in her life were either ignoring her symptoms or they

387
00:20:54.759 --> 00:20:57.960
didn't know how to help her, and it sadly had

388
00:20:57.960 --> 00:21:01.799
a tragic end. Yes, as many true crime stories do.

389
00:21:02.480 --> 00:21:05.759
So Nina covered this in one of her episodes, and

390
00:21:05.799 --> 00:21:10.000
we highly recommend you listen to it. Yeah, it's a

391
00:21:10.160 --> 00:21:14.640
terrifying story that happened in nineteen eighty eight. There's a

392
00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:18.759
school shooting of fire. It's called The Life and Rampage

393
00:21:18.799 --> 00:21:23.119
of Laurie Dan. So check it out. And we're not

394
00:21:23.160 --> 00:21:23.359
going to.

395
00:21:23.400 --> 00:21:29.480
Spoil it for you, all right. I know you loved

396
00:21:29.519 --> 00:21:31.799
this session with Defense Diaries.

397
00:21:32.240 --> 00:21:35.039
Oh my god. I had a really good time in

398
00:21:35.079 --> 00:21:37.359
this one. I didn't really know anything about the Karen

399
00:21:37.400 --> 00:21:37.920
Reid trial.

400
00:21:38.400 --> 00:21:40.440
I only knew a tiny bit.

401
00:21:40.759 --> 00:21:42.039
I mean I knew a little bit about it. I

402
00:21:42.119 --> 00:21:44.519
kind of knew the broad strokes, but I was not

403
00:21:44.599 --> 00:21:49.519
really following. We have a neighbor actually who was following it,

404
00:21:49.839 --> 00:21:52.240
who's been dying to talk to me about it. Yeah,

405
00:21:52.279 --> 00:21:56.200
because she knows we have a podcast. She's one of

406
00:21:56.200 --> 00:22:01.720
our subscribers. Yeah, and she's awesome. Maybe she's listening to this.

407
00:22:03.519 --> 00:22:06.680
And so I didn't really know much about it, and

408
00:22:07.960 --> 00:22:15.200
but I certainly learned Bob Motto and and Alison really

409
00:22:15.240 --> 00:22:17.640
took everybody to school about that case. That was fantastic.

410
00:22:17.680 --> 00:22:18.799
I thought that was so interesting.

411
00:22:18.920 --> 00:22:22.000
Yeah, and it's so great seeing them together to debate things.

412
00:22:22.200 --> 00:22:23.720
Yeah, they're so good at that.

413
00:22:24.039 --> 00:22:25.400
Yeah.

414
00:22:25.599 --> 00:22:27.720
I love how he'll be talking and she'll jump in

415
00:22:27.720 --> 00:22:30.599
and he'll be like, actually that's not right. So much

416
00:22:30.599 --> 00:22:31.079
fun to watch.

417
00:22:31.160 --> 00:22:31.839
You're so smart.

418
00:22:31.960 --> 00:22:34.799
Yeah, so that was great. Yeah, so we talked about

419
00:22:34.799 --> 00:22:35.640
the Karen Reid trial.

420
00:22:38.240 --> 00:22:41.160
What else do you want? The big show stopper?

421
00:22:41.759 --> 00:22:49.319
Oh my god. So the final the final session of

422
00:22:49.400 --> 00:22:53.559
the of of the festival was called I'll take the

423
00:22:53.599 --> 00:22:57.599
stairs with Allen and Tara.

424
00:22:58.119 --> 00:23:00.720
Yes, and if any true crime fans out there know

425
00:23:00.839 --> 00:23:03.240
what happened with Ellen and Tara.

426
00:23:03.240 --> 00:23:06.839
More like, if any true crime fans out there don't

427
00:23:06.880 --> 00:23:11.799
know what happened between Ellen and Tara at Obsessed Fest,

428
00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:14.240
A want to say twenty twenty three.

429
00:23:14.880 --> 00:23:17.599
Yeah, I believe it might have been early twenty twenty four.

430
00:23:17.640 --> 00:23:18.519
It might have been in the spring.

431
00:23:19.039 --> 00:23:22.880
Oh maybe you don't know. I you know. I hesitate

432
00:23:22.920 --> 00:23:25.240
to say google it because you're gonna get a really no,

433
00:23:25.279 --> 00:23:28.400
don't google it. Yeh, don't google it. How are they

434
00:23:28.440 --> 00:23:29.160
going to know if they don't.

435
00:23:29.440 --> 00:23:31.000
I don't know you can google it, But I would

436
00:23:31.039 --> 00:23:33.039
say take anything you read with a grain of salt,

437
00:23:33.160 --> 00:23:35.599
A huge grain of sault because what Ellen and Tara

438
00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:39.279
did was basically dispel any and all rumors about what happened.

439
00:23:39.279 --> 00:23:42.160
They came clean, they took accountability for things they had made.

440
00:23:42.440 --> 00:23:46.599
They explained how they became friends because of what happened,

441
00:23:46.640 --> 00:23:51.240
and it was it was awesome, beautiful, it was moving, inspiring.

442
00:23:51.319 --> 00:23:54.400
It was it was so much about not holding grudges,

443
00:23:54.920 --> 00:23:59.599
not making shit up about another person's motives or and

444
00:24:00.279 --> 00:24:02.039
like coming to someone and saying like, do you have

445
00:24:02.079 --> 00:24:04.799
a problem. How can we solve this problem? I want

446
00:24:04.839 --> 00:24:06.920
to I want to fix this. How do we fix this?

447
00:24:07.640 --> 00:24:11.880
And you guys, they they fucking fixed it. Yeah, And

448
00:24:11.920 --> 00:24:15.519
they were there together to tell tell the story and

449
00:24:15.680 --> 00:24:19.640
to dance and embrace each other, and it was just incredible.

450
00:24:19.680 --> 00:24:21.680
And Joey was there too.

451
00:24:22.680 --> 00:24:26.200
Who always amazing. One of the things I thought was

452
00:24:26.200 --> 00:24:30.200
really cool about that was that they talked about how

453
00:24:31.119 --> 00:24:35.759
other people that were involved, who shall obviously remained nameless,

454
00:24:38.079 --> 00:24:41.279
kind of fanned the flames ye and made it so

455
00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:45.400
much worse. But it was really it was really interesting,

456
00:24:45.680 --> 00:24:48.319
interesting to find out from both of them, like from

457
00:24:48.359 --> 00:24:52.400
both sides how it was just like a comedy of errors.

458
00:24:52.759 --> 00:24:54.799
Maybe not a comedy because it was pretty you know,

459
00:24:54.920 --> 00:24:57.640
it was it got to be pretty hurtful and scary,

460
00:24:57.680 --> 00:25:01.640
but it was just it was like a Three's Company episode.

461
00:25:01.640 --> 00:25:07.200
It was just a lot of cross signals and just it. Ah.

462
00:25:08.119 --> 00:25:12.000
But I'm so glad they squashed it. Yeah, there's yeah, there's.

463
00:25:12.319 --> 00:25:17.119
Some other people in the true crime community like helped them, yes,

464
00:25:17.400 --> 00:25:20.079
talk and talk through it, and it was just it's

465
00:25:20.119 --> 00:25:22.400
just so great to know what can be right.

466
00:25:22.599 --> 00:25:28.079
Yeah, take men out of the equation and see what happens.

467
00:25:29.599 --> 00:25:34.359
They'll spend an hour talking about the Denver Report. We

468
00:25:34.440 --> 00:25:38.519
had a kind of a funny moment with Julie and Brooke.

469
00:25:39.200 --> 00:25:41.880
What it was. It Saturday. We left to get lunch

470
00:25:41.920 --> 00:25:43.519
and we had rented a car, so we left the

471
00:25:43.559 --> 00:25:46.240
hotel and we were driving down the sidewalk and we saw.

472
00:25:46.279 --> 00:25:49.640
We weren't driving down the sidewalk. To be clear, I'm

473
00:25:49.640 --> 00:25:52.920
a very good driver, so I'm driving across the grass,

474
00:25:54.000 --> 00:25:56.880
so I pulled the car into the curb. So I

475
00:25:56.960 --> 00:25:57.559
jumped the curb.

476
00:25:59.279 --> 00:26:01.920
No, we were driving on the street, on the correct side,

477
00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:05.759
on the correct as and walking down the sidewalk. We

478
00:26:05.839 --> 00:26:09.839
see two of the participants from the festival, Julie Murray

479
00:26:09.880 --> 00:26:15.559
and Brooke. And I didn't really know Brooke, like I recognized.

480
00:26:15.000 --> 00:26:17.039
Her, but she was a friend of sarattorneys.

481
00:26:17.319 --> 00:26:20.319
I didn't really know her. And I knew Julie, like

482
00:26:20.359 --> 00:26:23.119
I said, by a reputation because I'd been in her

483
00:26:23.160 --> 00:26:27.880
sessions before. And so we pulled over and I rolled

484
00:26:27.880 --> 00:26:29.599
down the window and asked them if they wanted a

485
00:26:29.680 --> 00:26:33.680
ride to where we were going for lunch, and they accepted.

486
00:26:34.400 --> 00:26:35.240
They were like, yeah, why not?

487
00:26:35.319 --> 00:26:37.759
And I said, get in losers, We're going to Target, like.

488
00:26:39.160 --> 00:26:42.359
And it was legitimately a I don't know, it was

489
00:26:42.400 --> 00:26:43.359
like a three minute drive.

490
00:26:43.480 --> 00:26:44.359
It was just really short.

491
00:26:44.480 --> 00:26:46.480
It was silly, but it was also one hundred degrees

492
00:26:46.519 --> 00:26:48.359
in human Yeah it was, but it wasn't too humid,

493
00:26:48.359 --> 00:26:49.240
but it was. It was hot.

494
00:26:50.079 --> 00:26:52.480
And so we you and I went and got lunch

495
00:26:52.480 --> 00:26:54.480
and they went over to Target, but we did I

496
00:26:54.519 --> 00:26:56.559
didn't have anything. They didn't like. We had each other's

497
00:26:56.559 --> 00:26:57.039
contact and.

498
00:26:57.279 --> 00:26:59.920
We wouldn't coordinate, so we didn't coordinate the return trips.

499
00:27:00.119 --> 00:27:03.680
So we got stuck at the at the sandwich place

500
00:27:03.720 --> 00:27:07.519
for a while waiting for our order. And I just

501
00:27:07.599 --> 00:27:09.359
because it was like time for the sessions to start

502
00:27:09.400 --> 00:27:11.480
up again, I kind of assumed they either walked back

503
00:27:11.599 --> 00:27:13.559
or figured something out, maybe got to ride back with

504
00:27:13.559 --> 00:27:18.240
another two Randos and hopefully well no, you know what

505
00:27:18.240 --> 00:27:21.720
I mean, like its not random Rando's, but people like us.

506
00:27:21.839 --> 00:27:25.480
And you know, we got back, and then a couple

507
00:27:25.559 --> 00:27:27.920
hours later we were able to run into brook and

508
00:27:27.960 --> 00:27:29.920
I said, hey, you know, I'm sorry that we didn't

509
00:27:29.960 --> 00:27:33.039
give you ride back. And when I was talking to Brooks,

510
00:27:33.079 --> 00:27:34.720
she said, you know, I said, you know, and I

511
00:27:34.759 --> 00:27:36.400
realized that it was kind of strange, you know that

512
00:27:37.000 --> 00:27:38.440
I don't really know you. And I kind of pulled

513
00:27:38.440 --> 00:27:40.960
over and offered you a ride, and you took the ride,

514
00:27:40.960 --> 00:27:43.599
and she said, well, yeah, you know, you know Julie,

515
00:27:43.720 --> 00:27:48.039
So so I knew it was okay, It's like, I

516
00:27:48.119 --> 00:27:49.839
don't I don't really know Julie.

517
00:27:49.880 --> 00:27:53.640
We were like, I mean, I guess we do.

518
00:27:53.880 --> 00:27:57.039
I mean, I mean, she's I know who she is.

519
00:27:57.000 --> 00:27:59.680
You know who she is, and we think she's amazing.

520
00:27:59.519 --> 00:28:03.000
And yeah, so it was just kind of funny to

521
00:28:03.039 --> 00:28:05.079
think that like they all kind of I think each

522
00:28:05.079 --> 00:28:07.440
other might have assumed we were fine to take a

523
00:28:07.519 --> 00:28:10.799
ride from and which we were to be, of course

524
00:28:10.920 --> 00:28:14.400
we were, but it still was kind of like a funny,

525
00:28:14.400 --> 00:28:15.400
funny moment.

526
00:28:15.160 --> 00:28:17.480
But I was also like, never take a ride from

527
00:28:17.519 --> 00:28:18.680
a stranger again. Oh my god.

528
00:28:21.000 --> 00:28:23.960
And when I told Julie this story later at the

529
00:28:24.160 --> 00:28:27.559
VIP mixer and I mentioned you know that, I said

530
00:28:27.559 --> 00:28:30.240
to Brooke, you know, yeah, of course I know Julie,

531
00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:34.240
but it's not like we're besties. When Julie said, we're not, like,

532
00:28:34.480 --> 00:28:35.240
I just.

533
00:28:38.119 --> 00:28:40.519
You were like, I remember I saw you afterwards and

534
00:28:40.960 --> 00:28:42.400
we were like, we are now.

535
00:28:42.359 --> 00:28:47.720
We are now right. Yeah, probably one of my favorite

536
00:28:47.759 --> 00:28:49.799
memories from the whole weekend because it was just so

537
00:28:49.839 --> 00:28:54.839
silly and yeah, it was awesome, and it was it

538
00:28:54.880 --> 00:28:56.640
was kind of cool to like get to know new

539
00:28:56.640 --> 00:28:58.640
people that we never met before. But it was also

540
00:28:59.480 --> 00:29:01.240
awesome to see some of the people that we'd seen

541
00:29:01.319 --> 00:29:03.079
last year or that we worked together with that we

542
00:29:03.160 --> 00:29:06.799
hadn't really spent a lot of time with since because

543
00:29:07.279 --> 00:29:11.920
we live here, they live there. Like our buddies Kenna

544
00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:15.160
and Coel from Diagnostic Killer.

545
00:29:16.119 --> 00:29:16.759
They're amazing.

546
00:29:16.880 --> 00:29:18.920
They are amazing, and it was so cool spending so

547
00:29:19.000 --> 00:29:19.559
much time with them.

548
00:29:19.599 --> 00:29:21.240
I wish our table had been closer to that.

549
00:29:21.440 --> 00:29:23.400
Yes, maybe we should, like.

550
00:29:25.279 --> 00:29:28.119
Next year, I mean, who cares?

551
00:29:28.400 --> 00:29:34.440
Yeah, Kenna uh. Kenna and Coel were definitely some of

552
00:29:34.440 --> 00:29:36.240
the first people we talked about when we were like, hey,

553
00:29:36.519 --> 00:29:38.079
maybe we think we want to do a podcast, and

554
00:29:38.119 --> 00:29:41.160
they gave us so much guidance and do it. Yeah,

555
00:29:41.480 --> 00:29:44.759
so much support. It was awesome. I include Eric carter

556
00:29:44.920 --> 00:29:47.000
landin in that as well as being one of the

557
00:29:47.000 --> 00:29:50.400
people who we talked to who really encouraged us along

558
00:29:50.440 --> 00:29:50.720
the way.

559
00:29:50.960 --> 00:29:53.440
Yeah, and of course PNW.

560
00:29:53.839 --> 00:29:55.960
Oh my gosh, we missed not having them there.

561
00:29:56.200 --> 00:29:58.079
They weren't there, and.

562
00:29:57.960 --> 00:30:01.279
We were hoping to get to meet Jake and Jake

563
00:30:01.319 --> 00:30:04.400
and Jamie from Strictly Stocking. Neither of them were there,

564
00:30:04.440 --> 00:30:06.720
which was a bummer, but you know, there's always next year.

565
00:30:08.079 --> 00:30:10.799
But we did meet Jen and her dog Freya.

566
00:30:11.119 --> 00:30:15.079
Yes, yes, anyone who was at the festival saw the

567
00:30:15.160 --> 00:30:19.920
little dog Freya with her pink tail walking around and

568
00:30:19.960 --> 00:30:21.720
that was such a treat. It's so nice to have

569
00:30:22.200 --> 00:30:26.680
dogs around when you're especially when you're you know, hearing

570
00:30:26.720 --> 00:30:31.920
some awful stuff and you know, working through some difficult sessions.

571
00:30:31.960 --> 00:30:34.119
Sometimes just need some dog time.

572
00:30:35.440 --> 00:30:38.160
So yeah, that was awesome. I'm not sure if I

573
00:30:38.200 --> 00:30:40.839
have any final thoughts.

574
00:30:41.200 --> 00:30:43.640
We are very excited for the next one. Yeah, we're

575
00:30:43.640 --> 00:30:45.559
trying to think of what we should do for our session.

576
00:30:45.960 --> 00:30:48.720
Yes, if anyone has any ideas for what you think

577
00:30:48.759 --> 00:30:53.079
if Sins and Survivors were to do a session in Boston,

578
00:30:53.720 --> 00:30:55.720
what would it be about?

579
00:30:56.440 --> 00:30:57.119
Because we don't know.

580
00:30:57.400 --> 00:31:00.559
Yeah, we will likely figure something thing out, but we

581
00:31:00.599 --> 00:31:03.680
are also open to suggestions and partnerships, because we are

582
00:31:03.680 --> 00:31:07.480
always open to suggestions and partnerships. Speaking of suggestions and partnerships,

583
00:31:07.559 --> 00:31:09.720
I didn't even mention Natalie from the Murder Diaries, and

584
00:31:09.759 --> 00:31:12.480
we spent so much time with Natalie and.

585
00:31:12.359 --> 00:31:15.279
What is wrong with us? I was going to say,

586
00:31:15.279 --> 00:31:17.200
what is wrong with you? But I felt very cue story,

587
00:31:17.400 --> 00:31:18.319
what is wrong with us?

588
00:31:18.440 --> 00:31:21.480
I know, Natalie, it was so awesome meeting you and

589
00:31:21.519 --> 00:31:24.960
spending time with your husband Tim. And I'm sad that

590
00:31:25.039 --> 00:31:26.640
Paige wasn't there and we didn't get to meet her

591
00:31:26.680 --> 00:31:30.319
as well, But hopefully next time, next time, next time,

592
00:31:30.759 --> 00:31:32.240
because there's always going to be a next time.

593
00:31:32.319 --> 00:31:32.720
That's right.

594
00:31:33.279 --> 00:31:37.720
We are planning to spend more time with Tara as well,

595
00:31:38.039 --> 00:31:38.720
which is awesome.

596
00:31:38.759 --> 00:31:40.920
Coming up here about Tara.

597
00:31:40.720 --> 00:31:42.839
Well, I talked we talked about her in the Oh

598
00:31:42.880 --> 00:31:46.000
that's true, in her her sessions she did with Ellen

599
00:31:46.039 --> 00:31:49.480
but Tara was right there during my panel and definitely

600
00:31:49.480 --> 00:31:53.440
her podcasting course was the inspiration for me pitching that

601
00:31:53.519 --> 00:31:57.680
idea for that panel. So we love Tara so.

602
00:31:58.599 --> 00:32:01.319
And you should definitely do her podcast course as well. Yes,

603
00:32:01.440 --> 00:32:02.640
if she's doing it again.

604
00:32:02.559 --> 00:32:06.279
Yes, Or listen to her show The Batty Club.

605
00:32:06.079 --> 00:32:07.319
And Terry's why not both?

606
00:32:08.200 --> 00:32:08.680
Do it all?

607
00:32:08.880 --> 00:32:11.079
Do it all? Look up all these people that we've

608
00:32:11.079 --> 00:32:15.440
talked about. Listen to all their podcasts, learn their stories,

609
00:32:15.480 --> 00:32:16.359
share their stories.

610
00:32:16.480 --> 00:32:19.200
That's right, there's so many that we left out. We

611
00:32:19.240 --> 00:32:21.599
already know we did, so if.

612
00:32:21.480 --> 00:32:25.680
We did, we apologize. I think that's all we have

613
00:32:25.759 --> 00:32:29.039
for today. But we had a great time. We were

614
00:32:29.079 --> 00:32:30.200
so excited for the next one.

615
00:32:30.319 --> 00:32:34.079
Yeah, thanks for listening to this. We do appreciate you.

616
00:32:34.160 --> 00:32:35.839
Yeah, let us know what you think. Was this too rambly?

617
00:32:36.960 --> 00:32:38.799
It's going to take me so long to edit this.

618
00:32:40.680 --> 00:32:42.240
I'm going to edit it down to three minutes.

619
00:32:42.319 --> 00:32:43.200
Do you want to say the thing?

620
00:32:45.160 --> 00:32:46.480
Did it appropriate to say the thing? I'm going to

621
00:32:46.519 --> 00:32:52.079
say the thing. What happens here happens everywhere, even Boston,

622
00:32:53.319 --> 00:33:17.480
especially Boston. Thanks for listening. Visit sinspod dot com slash

623
00:33:17.559 --> 00:33:21.000
subscribe for exclusive bonus content. And to listen ad free.

624
00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:25.759
Remember to like and follow us on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok,

625
00:33:25.880 --> 00:33:29.839
and threads at Sins and Survivors. If you're enjoying the podcast,

626
00:33:29.920 --> 00:33:33.039
please leave us a review on your podcast platform of choice.

627
00:33:33.160 --> 00:33:37.319
You can contact us at Questions at sinsnsurvivors dot com.

628
00:33:37.440 --> 00:33:39.720
If you are someone you know as affected by domestic

629
00:33:39.799 --> 00:33:43.079
violence or needs support, please reach out to local resources

630
00:33:43.160 --> 00:33:46.079
or the National Domestic Violence Hotline. A list of resources

631
00:33:46.119 --> 00:33:49.519
is available on our website, Sins and Survivors dot com.

632
00:33:49.720 --> 00:33:53.160
Sins and Survivors, a Las Vegas true crime podcast, is research,

633
00:33:53.200 --> 00:33:56.160
written and produced by your hosts Sean and John. The

634
00:33:56.240 --> 00:33:58.680
information shared in this podcast is accurate at the time

635
00:33:58.680 --> 00:34:02.720
of recording. You have questions, concerns, or corrections, please email us.

636
00:34:02.799 --> 00:34:05.240
Links to source material for this episode can be found

637
00:34:05.240 --> 00:34:08.760
on our website, Sends and Survivors dot com.

638
00:34:09.079 --> 00:34:12.079
The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely

639
00:34:12.159 --> 00:34:16.440
those of the podcast creators, hosts, and their guests. All

640
00:34:16.480 --> 00:34:20.400
individuals are innocent until proven guilty. This content does not

641
00:34:20.559 --> 00:34:24.599
constitute legal advice. Listeners are encouraged to consult with legal

642
00:34:24.639 --> 00:34:25.800
professionals for guidance.