Deadly Domestic Violence in Vancouver: Meshay & Layla (PNW Haunts & Homicides)

0:00 To listen ad free, visit sinspod dot co slash subscribe starting at two ninety nine a month. You'll also get access to our exclusive bonus content episodes when you join through Patreon or Apple subscriptions. Thanks for supporting the show. Hello, Sins and Survivors listeners. As we get closer to wrapping up our second season, we're taking a little time to recharge and gear up for some incredible stories in season three. So over the next few weeks we'll be dropping the occasional surprise episode and a few special feed swaps. Today, we're bringing you something a little different, a special feed swap episode from our friends over at PNW Haunts and Homicides, Caitlin and Cassie. They cover true crime and haunted history from the Pacific Northwest, and their storytelling is thoughtful, funny, and well researched. The episode you're about to hear covers the heartbreaking story of miche Melendez and her seven year old daughter, Laylah Stewart. It's the story of two lives cut short and a case that should have been prevented.

0:57 It's yet another example of how red flags can be missed, how systems often fail victims of domestic violence and just how urgent this issue really is. Cassie and Caitlin walked through the timeline, the history of the man responsible, and the many points where this could have gone differently. It's heavy, but powerful, and an important reminder that these aren't just stories, they're people. When you're done, head over to sinspod dot co, slash PNW, or look for them wherever you get your podcasts. It isn't just a true crime story. It's a timeline of heartbreak, a story of a mother, a daughter, and a system that seemed to have every opportunity to prevent their deaths and didn't. What happened to them is horrifying, but what's equally chilling is how much could have been prevented.

1:52 We tell ourselves that we have systems in place to help prevent these tragedies in our communities. Hey Cassie, Hey Caitlin, Hi, creepy people. Hey, this is PNW Haunts and Homicides where we chat about true crime, also haunted stuff, you know, kind of whatever we're feeling. Comes Saturday at about three o'clock. Holy shit, Wow, any who's all and where? In the Pacific Northwest. It's the PNW if you're nasty. So you gotta tell them what the PNW means. I just won't know.

2:37 They just they How could they not. Go through the whole episode and just get to the end and learn nothing and they'll just be like the whole time, I was like, what does P ANDW even mean? Yeah, that's honestly, it's it's one of the greater issues facing facing, facing, facing our nation. Two day, our country, our country. Forget about those deportations, it's the pay in W. That's what's on everyone's mind. I just really want to know what that stands for. Killing God, you gotta stop getting so motherfucking political. Honestly, it's probably not going to stop. Please you, just you.

3:21 It's almost like we actually spend a lot of time and money creating the show, and then the content that you consume from it is free, so you know, it's. Your choice unless you join our Patreon. Yeah that's right, and then you get add for you and then because technically they're not free, because you do pay for them with your ear holes by listening to other ads. That's true, it's true, and that is a hell of approach to let me tell you, I want to give us real money. Yeah, as someone who just paid the price for YouTube videos of pronunciations for the most random things earlier today. Honestly, yeah, we paid YouTube a lot of money with our ears. Are your holes? Oh boy? Oh? Bullieve? Well, anyways, so I guess should we? Oh? We we forgot the one thing? What do we know?

4:18 At the end of our episodes, we do a little tear out the end of our episode for a little deeper insight into our topic. Are you ready to get into a story? I guess so, Okay, great, I'm here. That makes one of us. Well, hopefully you guys are ready. You're here too. We're all in this together. Let's go. Oh boy, did you know that the city of Portland hasn't recorded a single homicide this month? And as we record this it is April. I did not know that. Well, that's as of April twenty first this year. Anyway, So April twenty sixth twenty five, at three eight in the month of March, seven people were killed in Portland, a total of ten so far for the calendar year.

5:08 Last summer, our neighboring state to the north was reporting a downward trend sort of the state of Washington not Canada. Just to be clear, they are not actually a state as a recording, they are still very much a nation independent from the US. Round of applause, applause. Okay, it is and always will be the Gulf of Mexico. I was literally thinking the same thing. Weird, yeah, okay. The Washington Association of Sheriffs and Police Chiefs published its annual data on crimes reported statewide for twenty twenty three. Their report revealed that there were a total of three hundred and seventy six murders recorded throughout the state of Washington last year three three seventy seven, three hundred and seventy six.

6:06 Why you just said it seventy seven. But still it's like like one a day, over one of how many days were there in a year? Three hundred and sixty five, Yes, like over one a day though, that's just crazy. Yep. This represented a five point eight percent drop from the previous year, which seems positive until compared to another statistic. It also represents an eighty one point one percent increase over figures dating back to twenty nineteen, So eighty one zero point one percent increase reported in twenty twenty three compared to twenty nineteen. Wow, what is happening? Well, I think there's one thing that was happening in that span that explains a lot. Oh am, I like forgetting something big, the great Panini. Oh oh well.

7:01 Duh okay, Cassie, I just like try to put that out of my head. Yes, because as we know, twenty twenty was in fact the longest decade ever. H horrific and sad and yeah. Yeah. And when I say twenty twenty I don't mean the decade twenty twenty to future date twenty thirty. I mean twenty twenty the year. The standalone year felt like an entire decade. Was this an increase in murders though, or just deaths in general? But like this is what this is homicide? Peopleill be COVID murdering out there. Yeah, well think about it. Shelter in place, which was very necessary. But if you are living with someone who is violent, that was one of those like really tough things about it. Yeah. Violent offenses rose steadily in twenty twenty and hit their peak in twenty twenty two in terms of violent crime overall. The month where these so called crimes against persons occurred was May, right around the corner. May the fourth be with you. Oh.

8:12 I've always heard April showers bring May flowers, but apparently that's not all. Notably, February was the month where such crimes were the least frequent. Valentine's Day, I guess I just assume that winter kind of like you know, the summer heat brings out the worst and a lot of people. That's all included in a super non murdery way in my case. But no, everyone's bitch just feeling the low. But Valentine's Day, is it? I do have a question. Is it just because there's like a couple of days missing that makes it the least could be? Could be? I think that's a very valid point, to be honest, those couple of days, anything could happen, you know. Yeah.

8:57 I skimmed over quite a few sections of this report, and it breaks down a lot of different statistics related to crime. Obviously, that's the whole point in the state of Washington for twenty twenty three, and it's very interesting to see the data points. Certainly, I don't know. I have thoughts and feelings, obviously. I know it's weird. It's like, that's why I have this fucking microphone or something. I don't know, who knows. Why are we here today? We're covering a story that's as devastating as it is important to tell. It's a case that highlights what happens when warning signs are ignored and victims fall through the cracks of a system meant to protect them. It's the kind of story that makes you want to sit with the weight of it for a minute, a moment, maybe just the one, because it's pretty heavy. We'll be walking through the lives and tragic deaths of Miche Melendez and her seven year old daughter, Laylah Stewart Layelah, Laylah. I love that name. I know this is not an easy story, but it's one that matters, and I think I hope that everybody know this applies to every story that I talk about. But it isn't just a true crime story.

10:25 It's a timeline of heartbreak, a story of a mother, a daughter, and a system that seemed to have every opportunity to prevent their deaths and didn't. What happened to them is horrifying, but what's equally chilling is how much could have been prevented. We tell ourselves that we have systems in place to help prevent these tragedies in our communities. Let's start at the beginning. Miche Melendez was twenty seven. She was a mother, a daughter, and a friend. Lailah Stewart. Was bright, funny, with her whole life ahead of her.

11:09 I mean she was seven years old, so literally her whole life ahead of her. I feel like seven's like a fun age. They start to get like their own little personality, like for real. Yeah yeah, And she definitely seemed like she had a really fun personality. The morning of March twelfth, twenty twenty three, was the last time Miche and Layla were seen alive before both vanished. The last person they were seen with was Kirkland C. Warren, a man that Miche had a complicated relationship with. They stopped by a friend's house on Northeast Lewett Loop. That friend told police that Warren dropped Layla off there temporarily before leaving again. When they came back about three hours later, Miche well she was passed out in the front passenger seat of Warren's Dodge Charger.

12:10 At least that's what he said. The friend said she looked unconscious. It was a brief interaction. Warren just went into the home, picked up Leila, and then drove off and that was the last time anyone saw either of them. I feel like you should be going to a hospital if someone is unconscious in your car. No, the consensus was that he was just trying to pass it off, like, oh, she's just like hungover. Okay, that's that was the the vibe. She was just passed out. Okay. I'm thinking like like fate, like she's episode yeah, and you're just like picking up the dot. No, like go to the hospital, right.

12:53 Okay, Okay, if she's just like passed out from drinking or something, right, not as concerning, but this is still. Yeah, I would say, yeah, pretty early in the morning for yeah, yeah, well, well I've been drunk in the morning. I mean, sure, who hasn't Probably people that don't drink. But you know, now, here's what you need to know about Kirkland, see Warren. Other than that, I developed a nickname for him, and I don't think it's particularly clever, but I had fun with it. I can't wait to hear it. Soggy hot Dog Kirkland. Do they have soggy hot dogs? Well, what's it? Called cost Costco. No, he's a soggy hot dog.

13:43 I would never get a hot dog there. It's all eat chicken bake. What do you go there for chicken? Ban? We are you getting a hot who's getting a hot dog? Who are you? Yeah? Anyways, he was a man with a documented history of violence, a pending murder charge in Arkansas. In Arkansas, so he moved Sure did yeah? Wonder why? Yeah? I know, you know it's weird. Wait can you if they're what are you going to leave? The state begs the question, doesn't it Yeah? It's almost like, don't we have systems in place for this? I have questions? Uh huh yeah, I bet Yeah. Also, there was an active no contact order from the court. This didn't come out of nowhere. This started years ago. November twenty seventh, twenty seventeen, Warren shot Curtis Urkhart in the head with a twenty two caliber pistol. He later admitted to the shooting, telling police it was self defense. He dumped the body in a ditch on December twelfth. He was arrested on December thirteenth. He posted bond and walked free.

14:54 I can't get the words out because I'm just so very confused. Yeah. Yeah, so it turns out you actually can very easily jump bond and move to a different state. Uh when they like when they let you out on bond. But but murder, murder, you killing, and you dumped a body. M you see, which he actually had admitted to. He's like, never denied that I killed the guy, never denied that I tampered with the forensic evidence related to the corpse. I'm just saying it's self defense.

15:35 I feel like it can be self defense, but like it can't be both, Like this is one of those things where two things can't be true, Like you can't try to cover up your self defense murder. Like if it's self defense, you call the fucking police and be like, I killed someone. Great, No, it looks really bad and how bad? How do you? How do you? How do you like them out? Yeah? I feel like maybe in that situation, maybe we hold on to him for a minute, just you know, get open in our paws. Yeah. Fast forward to Vancouver, Washington in twenty twenty, so this is literally three years later. He shouldn't be there, He shouldn't even be there. No, he sure shouldn't, And yet here we are. In twenty twenty, Warren was investigated for possessing a stolen firearm, which doesn't seem like a red flag for somebody who already has been murder charges. He was arrested for this. Investigated. Investigated, Okay, Investigated is the is the word that all of my source material used.

16:39 I hear words wrong sometimes, sorry, guys, no, no, And I think sometimes in your brain you go investigated, and then you think like, well, surely they rest well, surely because he's he's murdered somebody and he has a cot, they'll call me surely. Uh, Okay. In twenty twenty one, he lied on a firearm application stating that he wasn't under indictment. We already know. He was getting back to twenty twenty three, getting back to twenty twenty three, which is the future from you know, the present future. Yeah, I know the present future. He was facing active domestic violence charges stemming from a shooting at Miche's apartment back in December. Whoa.

17:25 It took until February for law enforcement to corroborate her story with other witnesses, but later that same month, Miche recants. Oh no, he got his little meaty claws into he didn't he. I think that feels safe to assume, and actually I don't really even have to assume. She says she made it up, blaming mental health and drug issues, and at this point she pleads for Warren to be arrested. Investigators note the shift as suspicih and despite her protest, Warren was arrested. March second, Well that's good at least YEP.

18:14 March third, he appears in court facing domestic violence, assault, drive by shooting, harassment, and possession of a stolen firearm. A risk assessment gives him a thirty one on a scale that only goes to eighteen. It's actually it's it's gonna get worse. So I don't know whether to let you process or how does that even happen? Though, if it's only constance, right, I think it books the question. It's confusing and scales horseshit. Yeah, I didn't want to salmon. Prosecutors say he is an extreme risk to Miche. They ask for one hundred thousand dollars bail and it's grant and no contact order is issued. On the very same day he's released, Warren calls Miche twice from jail. What's no contact mean from jail? You're still okay? Honestly, as infuriating as that is, it's like, great, stay stupid. This will be used in a court of law. Right later, he says there is no way I'm going back to Arkansas.

19:32 I mean I wouldn't come back there either, but you know other places, sure, no. But I think it's important that he specifically said there's no way I'm going back to Arkansas, which, you know, if if the call was monitored in real time, that would have been like, what what about Arkansas? But because I kill someone there and they want to, you know, put me on trial for it. Yeah, for some reason, they let me out. Yeah, Warren didn't want to go back to Arkansas, not even a little. In jail house phone calls to miche he blamed her for his problems, demanded she figure out how to get the domestic violence charges dropped, and made it clear he was spiraling. And he posts bail and is released March sixth. March six this is three days later.

20:29 Wow wow. Warren appears in court again for violating the no contact order. Police ask for GPS monitoring. The judge sets ten thousand dollars bail and approves the monitor, but it's never applied. Why which is why all of my source material states with such disdain that this man was not under GPS monitoring. March seventh, the case is just missed, and March eighth, he walks free again. Like, I just don't. Understand how this could happen multiple times to somebody.

21:10 I mean, it's happened before, but yeah, yeah, like I just don't get it. Yeah, it continues to not make sense, the math not mathing. You know what else doesn't make sense. My fucking wine glass is empty. Oh oh damn, mine's almost empty too. All of this feels ominous in light of the fact that no one had seen or heard from Mische and Laila recently and such a short time after his release. I'm scared for them. I mean, you already know ultimately how this ends, and it's still kind of like what's gonna happen. Sometimes I like to pretend I don't know what's gonna happen in the end, and I just like to live.

21:55 In the moment. Mm hmmm, uh okay, Well, well, the following moments are moments that you may feel less like inhabiting okay days past. It was Mische's mother that reported the missing on March eighteenth, six days after they disappeared and just ten days after warn was released. That same day, she found Mische's car parked near the Lewett Loop home of their friend. That's less than a mile from the apartment that she shared with her seven year old daughter in the Springfield Meadows complex.

22:37 Oh, I don't know why that sounds so cute? In Springfield Meadows? Can I hold onto that just like for a second longer? Inside their apartment empty except for their dog, Doggie, Doggy. I think doggie was okay. Okay, Yeah, I don't. I don't have a lot of addition information about the dog. You just have to because doggie. I I hope the doggy was okay. Yeah, I think the doggy was okay. The very next day, March nineteenth, Warren was arrested at his own home on Northeast one hundred and ninth Avenue. Police charged him with multiple offenses, tampering with a witness, violating no contact orders, and more. But when investigators searched his Dodge charger, they found something much worse. Worse than a Dodge charger. I think I think, yes, worse than a Dodge charger, but the contents were also worse. Yeah, in the front and back seats there was blood twenty two caliber shell casings. They also recovered children's clothing that matched what Layla had last been seen wearing, and Missche's purse with her id still inside. I don't like the clothing, Nope, and you're gonna like it a lot less. Some additional details about our timeline. March eleventh, Miche, Layla, and Warren

24:09 stay at a friend's home. Early the next morning, the friend sees Mischee passed out in the passenger seat, so this is the day they went missing. That morning, she is unclothed from the waist down. Did the friend know or yep? The friend this is their reporting. Okay, wow, that would be like hm hmm, well like to see which is odd. But as we know, Warren collects Layla and they drive off. The following day is later identified as the date that the mother and daughter went missing. Just the day before, Miche's mother reports her daughter and grandchild missing because they missed a regularly scheduled video call, and Arkansas judge provokes Warren's bond. In the twenty seventeen case. Holy shit, so he's just literally been running wild across the countryside for literal years. Yeah, why did Arkansas do that? Unclear? Okay, I'm like, did they hear about that? Like, how did they hear about this? I don't point there was like cooperation between law enforcement of Arkansas and the state of Washington.

25:26 I don't know at the exact point where those dots were connected, but uh, I have to assume that feels like maybe, well that's. Great, Like I feel like that's really good for them to be in contact about this man. I mean, granted, Miche and Layla hadn't officially been reported missing at that point. This is the day before they are reported missing, right. But he got into some shenanigans before that, that's correct, Yes, not good shenanigans. No, someone does not have the luck of the Irish, and I'm glad he doesn't deserve any leprechaun magic. No, he doesn't, not at all. When law enforcement performs a wellness check on the eighteenth, there's no sign of them.

26:17 They're like weird, so they're like being reported missing and the wellness check says, oh oopsies, they may actually be Tot's missing. So missing yea. This next part really drives home some upsetting facts. First, is this man Hudini. He is constantly being released, seemingly by magic. Make it makes sense? Who is this? On March twentieth, prosecutors ask for either no bail or for five hundred thousand dollars. Man. This whole money and bail thing afore you.

26:57 Talk about it, it's pretty up setting. The more I don't like it. And while I would really love to go diving down the rabbit hole that is, you know, the classiest system of oppression so predominant in our legal system, I'm going to keep on moving. It's just obvious. I feel like you don't even need to No, it's just obvious. No. I feel like, yeah, if you don't inherently understand how people are being penalized for being poor by being ultimately driven further into poverty, then I have to assume that you're walking around like anyways. The judge postpones that hearing, you know, the bail one. At the hearing the following day, the prosecutors up their ask for bail to a million dollars and request GPS monitoring. And you want to know what did he actually get it this time it's granted.

28:02 Oh wow. Yeah, I feel like it's maybe a little just too late, Yeah, a little too late. And it's not even I just feel like GPS monitoring people totally misunderstand that is again like the jailhouse phone calls. That's not like being monitored in real time. It's not like Dysturbia, right, Yeah, Okay, I kind of always wonder how that works because I'm like, no one's like manning the phones twenty four to seven, Like no, I mean, and every jurisdiction can potentially be a little bit different in terms of how they handle that administratively and just like from an operational side of things. But again, not how that works, right, Like.

28:48 You don't leave the zone and an alarm goes off now and then the police coming at you. Just like what and their response time is never going to be three minutes or less for something like that. Yeah. Then, on the morning of March twenty second, a passerby walking down a private road near Southeast Wooding and Sunset View in wash Shugle made a nine to one one call. They thought they saw what looked like two life sized mannequins at the bottom of a steep embankment lodged in thick brush near Gibbons Creek. It wasn't mannikins. It's never mannequins.

29:31 I mean, I think there was that one time where it was a mannequin and that was like, you know, on the side of the highway, and that was really messed up. But it's just not that it was Mische and Laila. Their bodies, partially unclothed, bore the marks of multiple gunshot wounds suspected to have been fired from a twenty two caliber firearm that their autopsies would later confirm as the cause of death. Miche's was a close range contact wound is a different way of saying essentially execution style, while Layla had been shot twice, which begs the question why are you double tapping a seven year old? And I think I think we have the answer. I don't. Also, horrifyingly, lab results would ultimately confirm Warren's DNA was present on Layla's body. Yeah, I kind of feel like I knew that was coming, but I don't. I don't. Yeah, this is a situation where some sort of sexual violence occurred to a minor, and there are not a lot of details available about that because she's a minor.

30:58 I'm okay with that. I don't need the Yeah, tis no, nobody wants that. But ultimately, I hope that this reads to everyone that may encounter this man in the future. I hope that reads as he raped a little girl. Yeah that's how That's how it sounds. Yeah, sure does. I don't need the details. Following this discovery, when detectives asked him whether he thought their bodies had been found, Warren said I don't know, before adding I hope not. Well, sounds noncommittal, right, I mean that could be something that you say, like, I mean, I don't know. I hope not. Yeah, Like I hope that there was nobodies. I hope they're alive.

31:47 Uh huh. Yeah. However, I'm going to guess based on tone and a lot of other contexts that I have not not how they were reading that also this. However, when he was shown aerial photos of the site where the bodies were discovered, he ended the interview and requested an attorney. Why begs a question? Yeah, almost like oh shit, like they know where they're at. Yes, Oh, that's like a dead giveaway because they at that. Time they haven't found them yet, right, No, or they had aerial photos of where the bodies were found. Oh okay, okay, okay.

32:28 And this is one of those classic situations of like they're like, we're going to go in cold and we're going to give him a little piece I see, we're not going to let him know. And and maybe they didn't know, maybe it wasn't fully confirmed yet. They go in and they are like, Okay, we're going to see how he reacts, right, because. He didn't know that they knew that he knew that they knew, right, it's you know. No, I mean, it's honestly, they want to see how suspect reacts to certain information because organically, like your reaction is going to say a lot about what you know. There's so many implications. So he did the wrong thing, but sure did the right thing. Yeah, No, I mean like stay stupid, you know, yeah?

33:17 Oh man, wow them tricksy then tricksy cops, truck times. A tricksy, According to court documents. Warren would later tell police that he and Miche got into an argument over his second cell phone and that she accidentally shot Layla twice before turning the gun on herself. Because, of course, if you killed your own child totally by accident in the middle of a heated argument, of course, what else would you do? You would just shoot yourself in the right, right, right right. But also, and I can see the question on your face. I can see it all over your face. Hole, which is why my next sentence is, why would a man have a second cell phone? He might be tempted to ask, Oh, I didn't need to ask why he has?

34:10 Do you need to ask why? I don't know. I mean, I actually there are I don't want to say. It's not exactly a plethora, but I can think of a few reasons, other bitches or drug deals. What's the other reason? Very smart? Like there's two choices? Yeah? Yeah, yeah? Did I forget to mention that this whole ass time Warren has actually been married. He has a whole ass wife, Kirkland, What the fuck you're married? Yeah? Is she live in Arkansas? Nope? Oh? I well, actually I don't know, No one cares. The only other thing we're gonna alert about her is coming up shortly.

34:54 Yeah. So, speaking of degrees of shitball, his version of events was that Miche was the one holding the twenty two pistol he gave her for protection, and that he was under the influence of weed, mushrooms, and cocaine at the time. Oh feels like a super weird combo. If sounds like a party. I mean, it's the entirety of a party in one man's system. But it's like he couldn't decide. He's like, I was on this and this and this, Like you couldn't. Just be no. I mean I think sometimes people are just like, oh, yeah, the multiplier effect. Yeah, and they're like, oh yeah, then I'll totally you know, this is how I get off Scott free. Just tell them I was like pumped full of all kinds of drugs and then it's fine. And it's like, I don't think you understand the legal definition of like culpability, Like does he think because I'm on so many of these drugs, I can't shoot a gun like or that is somehow you're less responsible.

36:00 So it's like I feel like for a lot of these situations, it seems like they think that makes them less culpable. I don't know, maybe pick a different drug like meth or what's the one that people that the one that you like, eat people's faces off. Oh that's bad, salts. I don't know what that is. Say that one. I don't know. One. PCP is the one where like there was such a moral uh panic about it because people were like jumping off roofs, and there have been instances where allegedly people have become really aggressive. Do your research, dude, weed, trooms, and coke. I mean maybe the coke.

36:43 I don't know, but like, yeah, pick a different drug. Yeah, I don't know. I'm just saying I don't because it's obviously not true. It also really doesn't matter because all three of those still wouldn't. It doesn't, It doesn't. Fuck you still did it? Yeah? Yeah, No. Here's the thing is, even if they believe that nonsense, I mean, now you just copp to you know, being under the influence, which really is neither here nor there. He said he tried to overdose but threw the pills up, which which one of these is pills, I'm sorry, and instead fled to his wife's house, which makes me believe she did not reside in Arkansas, where he hid for a few days. As for his wife, Monette Tyler Warren, she was later convicted of embezzling twenty four five hundred dollars from her credit union where she worked. That's it. Yeah, And I will say, I know, my girl am higher.

37:43 You know, if you're gonna get caught, is not even going to cover your legal face? No, I don't know. I don't know how much. We don't do crime, but like also, if you're going to do crime, you. Know what I mean? Yeah, kind of like wow, was it worth it? That was a rhetorical question because no, nor okay, So this is the part that I actually kind of hate, and I remember seeing this in real time. I remember seeing and it's harder to find kind of some of the icky sentiment now, But there were some there were some chatterings.

38:25 It was a little bit like a reddit. Oh okay, it was a little bit like a subreddit for a minute there about this because prosecutors say the money was transferred to an account controlled by Miche, allegedly at Warren's direction. So essentially what happened is like kind of early days. There was speculation at certain points about like, oh is this some sort of conspiracy and like oh okay, in that classic just super gross kind of narrative forming about like oh, well, she's just a person of color who like stole, So like she's less dead now her and her child don't matter because they may or may not have been involved in some sort of a criminal act, which, by the way, let's just say so so clearly that even if she had been the mastermind of it, not less dead. This is a child also, she is so clearly a victim of an abusive relationship. Do you think that was her choice?

39:46 Right? He's contacting her from prison with a no contact order, like there's. And some of this stuff. I get why these points are brought up, and why you know before we know maybe that they're dead, before we know all of the backstory. You might go, ooh, that doesn't look good. But in hindsight, I'm like, Okay, let's pretend it's Gabby for a minute, right, Yeah, what do you think that reads like in her case? I just I struggle. I struggle with the framing in this situation because I haven't come right out and said it. But Miche Melendez was a person of color, as was her daughter obviously, and I don't I don't like the characterization in some instances, yeah, related to a crime that somebody else was committing. I mean to be clear, there's no money for her to then, you know, be the receiver of without somebody else having embezzled.

40:54 It, right, And like did she like obviously I don't know if we know, but like, did she even know about this or was it just put in her name? It's hard to say. It's hard to say. I don't know that that was ever determined. And again she did. Who fucking cares? Not less dead? Yeah? Not less dead? Maybe that's the T shirt I want. Yeah. Police officially charged Warren with two counts of first degree murder on March thirty first, which is a pretty quick turnaround. I was gonna say, wait a minute, March. It's we're still still in the market March. Yeah. In April, the prosecution stated they would pursue aggravated murder punishable by life without parole. But this case never made it to trial. Excuse me, yeah, which is actually it's one of the few positive surprises. Maybe months later in September, just days before the trial, Warren chained his plea to guilty, well sort of, for the second degree murder for Miche an aggravated murder of Leila. He entered an alfred plea for first degree child molestation. For anyone unfamiliar with the term, an Alfred plea essentially allows a defendant to maintain their innocence but assert that the state has enough evidence to

42:26 obtain a conviction. I know I've heard that term before, and I don't know where. I don't know if it was from you or I think probably one of the better known examples of sort of this strategy, at least legally, not at all. The same situation, obviously, is in the West Memphis three. Okay, so Super, in my opinion, not a guilty person, but someone who has ultimately decided that I just don't want to die in prison. Oh yeah, I think in this case, I'm not sure that the finer points of an Alfred plea would matter much to his potential new roommates. But I can see why that strategy might have made sense for someone facing the charges in potential sentence that he was. Again, Super, don't think his new roommates are going to be swayed by the fact that it was an Alfred plea. I think I kind of forgot about that. Yeah, I think the thing, I think, if they know what you were charged with, good luck with that at sentencing. The courtroom was packed. Family, friends and supporters wearing shirts with Miche and Laylah's photos were present. The judge said, the air in this courtroom

43:57 hangs heavy with the durable suffering of the family and friends of the victims. Warren declined to speak, and he showed, I mean really no emotion as he was led away. Every single photo of this man is stone fucking cold. I don't know that i'd want to see like anything else because it's like it would feel like disingenuous, almost like you've killed this person. So I don't want to see fucking emotion from you. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. There's no good way to see that. I guess no, but I think it really cements that. I just don't think that there's remorse.

44:38 Yeah. Officer Tanya Wolstein read family statements. Layla's last moments were filled with fear and suffering that no child should experience, so she also read statements at at a vigil for both of them. I felt like seeing the photos of her at the vigil, it was really hard to see someone who I'm sure you know through the course of this investigation. You know, it's like she feels like she knows them, but to see pictures from the vigil, it was just such a it's hard to even put into words.

45:22 You could just really see how deeply affected people were by this case. And there were so many people showing up to these to the vigil, and you know in the courtroom that it's like they don't know them personally, but the impact of this case, Laylah's father, Javonte Stewart, said, the impacts of their death have left me and others here today struggling to find a way forward. And the grief is something I carry with me every moment of my life. This case had touched a lot of life lives, people that knew the victims, and like I said, I mean many that hadn't. In twenty twenty two, the CDC reported that over half of female homicide victims were killed by current or former partners, over half over half. And this is where we get the phrase it's always the husband.

46:24 That's what I was thinking. The husband did it. And according to the National Network to End Domestic Violence, one in three women killed by intimate partners had reached out to police or services beforehand. That breaks my heart. This wasn't a system error. This was a system pattern. And as much as there were things that we can all point to and say this is the part of the system that we hate and we don't understand and it needs to be better, ultimately we can't really lay this at the feet of the system either, because for all the things that we have in place to try to prevent these things, there are just probably always going to be people that do things like this. Also related to the murder that occurred in Arkansas on April twenty third, twenty twenty three, a fugitive warrant for his arrest was issued, which as I was writing this this particular part of the story, it was on April twenty third, twenty twenty five.

47:50 What Yeah, And I'd already spent a good chunk of time on this case. But I was like, Oh, that's fucking spooky. That is so weird looking at this like through the month of April and seeing all of these parallels to like months just very recently gone by, and then also finding stuff that related to like the crime stats from the report related to February and May, and it just felt like it was like this like chunk of time in recent history. It was like everything felt like Oh my god, this is like two years to the day later. The whole timeline. Oooh spooky. I don't know.

48:48 It gave me chills. And this is only April. What what's twenty April twenty six? Yeah, I don't really have an eloquent way to end this. I'm going to read this next statement and then we'll move on to something that feels a little less heavy. Well, we'll do our tiro. If you or someone you know is experiencing domestic violence, please don't wait. Help us available. You can call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at one eight hundred seven nine nine safe that's seven two three three, text start to eight eight seven eight eight, or visit the hotline dot org for twenty four to seven confidential support.

49:35 You are not alone and you deserve to be safe. I don't know why that like really fucks me up. It does. It's the whole time though you're that you're saying that, I'm thinking, like, there are some people who can't even do that, Like they don't even feel safe enough to do that, or they're so like watched that they can't text a line or fucking like call a hot line or something like. It's yeah, and it's so scary. We've talked about cases where you know where that is the situation, and I think it's always really hard with cases that involve domestic violence because people don't understand sometimes how coercive and controlling and manipulative those situations can be. And they just it's not like they just like spring.

50:28 On you either, they like now grow on you, and they to where you like you don't even realize half the time, like what's happening, you know, if you don't really realize it. No, it's the pots slowly heating up before it's boiling, right. I think we'll probably try to put that in the show notes as well. Well, should we do? Sent Taro? I think we should? Okay, all yours, My energy is in there. Okay, she is shuffling the deck. I won't tell you what she just did off camera. Her hair is a beautiful rose gold. Last time you were like, her hair is a beautiful chestnut to.

51:23 Me because I was like, describe what I'm doing. That sounds it was great. I loved it. We get this one all the time. Oh my goodness. Okay, seven of swads I forget. Okay, for some people who may not listen all the time. We are using our P ANDW deck, which is not a traditional tarot deck, so the imagery is a little bit different on it, and I feel like sometimes we just kind of start talking about it and we don't say, like, hey, this is the P and W the way, because we also have a YouTube now which shows our altar and our everything and the cards were using, So sometimes we just kind of assume you can see it, and then we don't explain what's going on.

52:08 Listen. If you want to know what's going on, then I We're sorry, we facking don't know what's happening. Ever, I don't know. So seven of swords. Our keywords are uncertainty, illusion, impetuousness, stealth, cunning, and strategy. Yeah, it's got that little fox on it. So that's like the weasel, so I always called it fox. It's a weasel. It does kind of look like a fox att a glance, though. Yeah. The weasels stealing eggs out of a robin's nest such a dick move, which is like kind of like what he did a little bit.

52:52 Yeah. Yeah, the imagery for me immediately. Baby a baby from a nest. Basically great, literally okay. Some decks, including the Writer Waight Smith, Aquarian, and Gilded Tarot, show a man carrying carrying away five swords, leaving two stuck in the ground beside. Him behind him. Excuse me, wow, Reading is hard. When this card appears, it suggests you're facing a challenge or problem and must use caution to overcome potential danger. The upright seven suggests a tricky situation in which things are not completely clear. You may be formulating a plan but don't have all the information you need, or the plan may be risky and could backfire. This card can represent surreptitious action and advises diplomacy. I feel like in this situation that really what is diplomacy. I mean, it's kind of like trying to make peace and trying to be I mean, trying to be a peacemaker. But the surreptitious action that's what gets me, because it's like, how can you adequately be the peacemaker in a situation where people are behaving in ways that are underhanded, that are manipulative.

54:24 You can't. I mean you can try, you can try. In a reading about money, the seven warns that you probably shouldn't go ahead with a financial idea or investment you're considering, like embezzlement. Oh, perhaps the risks are too high, or the deal may be shaky or shady. Yeah, like embezzlement twenty four twenty four hundred thousand, twenty four thousand, Yeah, twenty four thousand, five hundred, while and fifty six. Oh my god. And if the reading is about your job, this card says don't engage indirect confrontation, work behind the scenes to get results. The upright seven can also indicate restlessness.

55:18 Perhaps your job lacks the diversity or stimulation you desire. Consider making a change. In a reading about love your advice to seek compromise and use diplomacy rather than arguing with a partner. But don't just go along to get along. Oh wow, that was for sure when she took back her statement about that, was it a shooting, like he like shot somebody or something? Yeah, it was that. Well. I mean, it's unclear to me, at least in my research, what exactly or who exactly he may have been firing upon. But given the fact that he was charged for essentially what amounts to like drive by, Oh Jesus, I don't know. And to be honest, I don't know that it adds a lot of value to the case, which should be centered on the victims that I was like, listen, I can pull at this thread, but it's not about that, and it doesn't work, It doesn't.

56:29 Change, but it totally like reminds me of that. How she like recount recounted her statement? Is that what the recan't Yeah, that's not the right word. Recant at her statement. Yeah, recounting is like almost like recollection. Yeah, yeah, they're similar words leave me alone, they are, I mean, they sound alike. Sometimes this card shows leaving a relationship that doesn't meet your intellectual or spiritual will needs. I don't think he met any of her needs. Oh my god. Extra excerpt is uh, focus, be focused and thorough in planning your strategy. As Barbara Moore writes in The Gilded Tarot, companion, be on guard or one of those sorts he left behind will find its way into his back. Oh right, And.

57:30 He basically like he left enough evidence to get himself convicted. Yep, wow, And do you know, Okay, listen, maybe this is irresponsible to actually vocalize, but I will say leaving behind the forensic evidence that leads to an Alfred plea for what you did to a child. That's one way to get shanked. He's not dead yet, though, is he Nope, not to my knowledge. I feel like that would have made the news. There's one more extra excerpt. Okay, his holiness, the fourteenth Dhali Lama tragedy should be utilized as a source of strength, no matter what sort of difficulties, how painful experience is. If we lose our hope, that's our real disaster.

58:36 I feel like that's just like really hits just in general right now for the world. Yeah, I feel like talking about this through the lens of you know, the political landscape recently and thinking about how quickly certain populations basically anyone who's not h white, cis male, could be set back essentially fifty five years. That's just a really important sentiment right now. I know I've read the little interpretation from the book that comes with the P ANDW deck. Let me just see, because you never know, even though you've read something a thousand times like there still could be like a part or a word that just totally connects. This is why we pull the same card all the time, because we have the same type of theme shit. I mean if the shoe fits Cinderella, so it's an Olympic short tailed weasel.

59:39 So that's isn't like Olympic Olympias associated Yeah with like Washington. Yeah, ooh, we did. We have read this so recently. Listen, everybody's got to eat. And I feel like when we were. Talking about this, we were kind of talking about the same sort of themes I'm in. Who would have sunk right to boy, it ain't my fault. Mom and Papa Robin decided to fly off at the same time. Oh god, See, I wouldn't call that a wise decision. I know they're not gonna want to hear this, but when you think about it, this one's on them. Look at how nature works. It's opportunistic, and I know an opportunity when I see it. That's like typical, fucking, oh god, abusive manipulatory. Anyway, if I didn't swipe these eggs, somebody else would have. Anybody could have been waiting in the leaves, still in silent as death, watching that nest all afternoon and still in silent as death.

1:00:38 It's just I hate it. Anybody could have deftly climbed the tallest tree swung out on the rickety bough and dove neatly into the Nests Cup without so much as scuffing a single delicious egg. I mean, eggs in this economy, don't be stuffing that bitches them bitches. So what if I got there first? Don't blame me for playing a game and winning. What do you want me to do? Starve? So it just like you let me out of jail, like that's your Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I mean and yes, yes and no, yes, yes and no. It's really lucky and I hate it, I know, having creepy yas day.

1:01:25 We'll see you next Tuesday. Scrambled eggs anyone? Goal for it? Nea Ham, you missed my hilarious sports ing joint. What did you say? You say, go for it? Yeah, because when you said go for it, it sounds like goal for it, and I was so I said goal for it, like goal like a like a goalie. Yeah, and I was like, goal for it, Nyaham. I don't know if that be.

1:02:11 She's a soccer player. Oh I don't soccer. I barely know her. I am a dad on the inside. Okay, oh my god, thanks for listening. Visit sinspod dot com. Slash subscribe for exclusive bonus content and to listen ad free. Remember to like and follow us on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and threads at Sins and Survivors. If you're enjoying the podcast, please leave us a review on your podcast platform of choice. You can contact us at Questions at Sinson Survivors dot com.

1:02:54 If you were someone you know as affected by domestic violence or needs support, please reach out to local resources or the National Domestic Violence Hotline. A list of resources is available on our website, Sins and Survivors dot com. Sins and Survivors, a Las Vegas true crime podcast, is research, written and produced by your hosts Sean and John. The information shared in this podcast is accurate at the time of recording. If you have questions, concerns, or corrections, please email us. Links to source material for this episode can be found on our website, Sinsensurvivors dot com. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the podcast creators, hosts, and their guests. All individuals are innocent until proven guilty. This content does not constitute legal advice. Listeners are encouraged to consult with legal professionals for guidance